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The Steve Jobs Diet, Dr. Dean Ornish, and Vegetarian Cancer

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 Update as of 1/6/2011: Dr. Ornish(creator of the Ornish Diet) contacted me to point out a NY Times piece (published 3 weeks after my original post) where Dr. Ornish indicates that he recommended to Steve Jobs that he have surgery immediately upon getting his first cancer diagnosis. See his comments below in the post discussion. He declined my offer of airtime to discuss his dietary recommendations.

_____Begin original post______

I hesitated to even write this post. I do not want to capitalize on the death of a visionary man like Steve Jobs, but I do want to let it help as many people as it can. Last week in New York, I met with an old friend and entrepreneur who just signed his company’s first billion-dollar deal. He explained why Steve Job’s death seems personal to so many of us.

He explained, “Steve Jobs was only 56. As a tech ‘superhero’ with all the money in the world, he couldn’t beat the cancer. It makes me feel more mortal. How much more time do I have? I need to do more to make a difference.” But is it really true that Steve “couldn’t” beat the cancer? Or did Steve make some well-intentioned lifestyle choices that made it really hard to cure his cancer?

Most media reports state that Jobs used a “special diet” for almost a year before going for Western medicine approaches, but it’s almost impossible to figure out what that diet was. After a couple hours of research, it appears that Steve Jobs was using the Dr. Dean Ornish Cancer Diet, which is almost the complete opposite of the Bulletproof Diet. In case you haven’t heard of him, Dean Ornish, MD, author of “Eat More, Weigh Less,” is one of the leaders of a small group of radical physicians who tout incredibly low fat diets with strict avoidance of (healthy) saturated fats as the path to health, despite years of research showing how misguided that is (see Gary Taubes epic work “Good Calories Bad Calories” or any competent body building coach for more info…)

As a biohacker and tech entrepreneur who studies techniques for manifesting creativity and performance,  I  took note of Jobs’ early trips to an ashram in India. He came back a Buddhist with his head shaved and he experimented with psychedelics , calling his LSD experiences “one of the two or three most important things [he had] done in [his] life.” I’m not kidding – that’s from Wikipedia. He also became a vegetarian from those experiences.

I did something similar, spending 3 months in Nepal and Tibet, complete with 10 days at Kopan Buddhist monastery in Nepal, a vegetarian diet, and a shaved head.

But I ditched the vegetarian diet. First of all, it’s hard to sit still to meditate when you keep having to tilt sideways because beans give you endless gas,  not to mention that a 70% carb, low fat diet like Ornish’s makes your mind less focused.

But the main reason I eat meat, aside from doing it for health reasons, comes from a Tibetan monk at a monastery in Tibet. I saw a yak skin hanging from a prayer pole and asked the local Lama how that was in line with Buddhist principles of no killing. He smiled at me and said very simply, “One death feeds many. It is very high altitude here. We need to eat meat and fat to survive.” That monastery was at about 14,000 feet altitude. That monk’s simple wisdom may very well have saved me from sabotaging my health with more vegetarian diet experiments. I still don’t eat chicken, in part because the fat in it is not good quality, but more because one chicken death only feeds one person, or two anemic ones.

But back to the Ornish diet that Steve Jobs almost certainly pursued when he found he had cancer. Let’s look at this radical and dangerous diet and get a feel for what it can do to you, and why. Livestrong.org has an overview of the Ornish diet.

The Ornish Diet Starves You of Vital Fat Based Nutrients

On a low fat diet, your body is tricked into believing you are experiencing a famine, even if you use bizarre tricks (like eating sawdust or other fiber supplements)  to make your stomach feel full. Your stress hormones will rise in response and even your genes will respond. For short periods of time, this can even be healthy, but after longer periods, your hormones will run out of raw materials (saturated fat and cholesterol) to function optimally, and your nerve sheath (70% fat) and brain will suffer. Basic nutritional research and examination of native diets shows that the human body performs best on quite a lot of fat, and even high-carb diets work better with significant saturated fat (see the Kitavans who eat 70% carbs but mostly saturated fat, smoke like chimneys, don’t exercise, and look like body builders.) On a low fat Ornish Diet you may not receive the nutrition you need. There is good research that eating fat with your vegetables lets you absorb the nutrients in them better.

My own experience on a low fat, low calorie diet was disastrous – it helped me reach 300 lbs. I can’t imagine what a powerful man like Steve Jobs would have accomplished if he’d given his brain and hormones what they need to function optimally. If he’d received better nutritional guidance in India, perhaps we’d be on the iPhone 12 by now.

The Ornish Diet Relies on Vegetarian Dogma

The Ornish diet basically encourages you to avoid even lean meat because there might be some (healthy) saturated fat in it, creating a recommendation for low-fat vegetarianism.  Sadly, vegetarians have a higher mortality rate than people who eat only grass-fed (mycotoxin free) meat. No amount of statistical wiggling is going to disprove this basic fact of human existence. I don’t like it – I’d prefer to thrive on sunshine and smiles to be honest – but careful experiments and the preponderance of data says we do better on lower carb, higher saturated fat diets devoid of fat-soluble endocrine disrupting toxins. Vegetables taste good, but they are not proper food by themselves, even soaked in grass fed butter.

It is true that a vegetarian diet lower in toxins will cause less cancer than a processed food diet containing low quality meat. However, a meat-based diet with high quality meat and fat will outperform a vegetarian diet every time. And entrepreneurs who include grass-fed meat in their diets will find they have more energy and even more passion for what they do.

The Ornish Diet is Anti-Fish

A commenter named Musesum just provided a link showing that the Ornish diet is not anti-fish. Most web sites and reviews claim he is, but on page 42 of his book, Dr. Ornish recommends fish for some omega 3 oils. I stand corrected (next 2 paragraphs are unedited from original.)

Fish are pretty darn good for you and research into native peoples’ diets shows how important they are for trace nutrients and omega 3 fatty acids. While many have excess mercury, consuming low mercury fish (or krill oil) will go a long way towards improving your health and mental performance. Dr. Ornish’s fat phobia does not justify avoidance of fish. If mercury concerns you, see the articles on the site about how to bind it as you eat fish.

We do know that Steve Jobs ate fish – he was a pescatarian until his cancer – but cutting his only source of healthy protein right as he got cancer must have been a disastrous decision. Those missing calories would have been replaced with starch on an Ornish diet. Cancer cells have 28 times more insulin receptors than normal cells, which is why starch and sugar make cancer explode. Cancer patients have no business being on a high carb diet. Recommending one is dangerous and irresponsible.

The Ornish Diet Recomends Endocrine-Disruptive, Thyroid-killing Soy

The Ornish Diet recommends frankenfoods like tofurkey and frozen processed meals, which are full of Roundup-soaked, genetically modified soybeans and partially hydrogenated oils. Even Fox News knows the health risks of  soy and partially hydrogenated oils, yet somehow they are allowed on the Ornish Diet. First off, that’s gross, especially compared to bacon. Secondly, I find it really hard to believe that a modern physician who reads any studies can in good conscience recommend a soy-based diet to anyone, especially a cancer patient. Soy is inflammatory and endocrine disrupting and inhibits your ability to absorb minerals. It is fertility destroying.

If Steve Jobs was able to perform at his level on a terribly unhealthy diet laced with estrogen (soy), I can’t imagine what he’d have done on a clean diet. I am in awe of what he was able to accomplish while sporting the nutritional equivalent of a ball and chain. It make me sad that he did that to himself because he was misinformed about basic nutritional science.

Dr. Ornish Believes That Grains Are Food for Healthy Humans

Simply put, we have genetic evidence that 70% of people are intolerant to gluten. Eating “whole grains” is simply not a way to pursue health no matter how many times we repeat the mantra, “whole grains are healthy.” They’re not. They’re cheap and easy to store, but they are responsible for a whole host of chronic diseases. Historical records show that when societies of hunter gatherers settle down and start to grow grain, their skeletons become deformed over multiple generations. I write about this extensively in my upcoming book on pregnancy health.

There is simply no good reason for a pregnant woman – or a man with cancer – to eat grains, whole or not. Throw them out and watch your waist shrink.

Ornish Dieters Eat Sick Amounts of Carbohydrates

The Ornish Diet recommends that about 70 percent of calories should come from carbohydrates. The body is capable of converting carbs into protein and only 1 type of fat (fully saturated palmitic acid) but the metabolic cost of doing so is extreme. High carb diets lower immune function. They lead to yeast overgrowth and they feed cancer cells by providing excess insulin. They also lead to mood swings and hormonal disorders, especially very bad PMS. Even worse, high carbs put stress on the pancreas, which cranks out all the insulin you need to absorb those carbs. Steve Jobs had pancreatic cancer.

The bottom line

We’ve lost a luminary before his time.

It is simply unacceptable that unfathomably poor nutritional advice concocted in the 1970’s contributed not only to Steve Jobs’ early demise, but to the fattening of an entire generation.

Dr. Ornish, it’s time for you to recant your extremist low-fat views. They’re killing people every day.

 

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By Dave Asprey

  • Hgt

    Needed to be said. Thanks.

  • Shikatzu06

    If you have no idea, what diet Mr. Jobs used, then don’t make assumptions and bash a diet that has been proven right for so many cases.

    • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

      If you read the real research on low cal veg low fat diets, they are a statistical abberation in the history of nutrition research going back 200 years, or 5000 years if you include Chinese Medicine. Gary Taubes has the best research I’ve seen compiled in one place – try “Good Calories, Bad Calories” for a little while. It makes “The China Study” look like the waste of paper it actually is.

  • Anonymous

    You may be right that a lack of fats in his diet was a problem. I had not known of that. iMsad2 since perhaps that might have been prevented.

    Interesting article. To quote:

    “[T]he main reason I eat meat, aside from doing it for health reasons, comes from a Tibetan monk at a monastery in Tibet. I saw a yak skin hanging from a prayer pole and asked the local Lama how that was in line with Buddhist principles of no killing. He smiled at me and said very simply, “One death feeds many. It is very high altitude here. We need to eat meat and fat to survive.” That monastery was at about 14,000 feet altitude. That monk’s simple wisdom may very well have saved me from sabotaging my health with more vegetarian diet experiments.”

    This is a very good point. People in warm climates and not doing a lot of physical work often forget that meat and fats are an important part of our diet and were key for our ancestors. I’m a firm believer that we are part of the web of life, part of the food web. We are not separate from Nature. Our bodies are adapted through hundreds of millions of years for eating a balanced diet that includes meat. At various times I’ve tried the vegetarian diet, simply because I was living with vegetarians, but it never left me feeling healthy. In fact, just the opposite – while I was eating a vegetarian diet I broke a bone and it didn’t heal for nine months. Through some research I found why and started eating a small amount of meat. My bone healed very quickly once I started eating meat again and the healing was so complete the doctors were amazed – they had been talking surgery and pins prior to that. I have broken 46 bones in my life (I live a rough life) and normally I heal very quickly, in days to a week, probably because normally I have a balanced diet which includes plenty of meat. It is only while being a vegetarian that I have had bones not heal and had other health problems.

    The other issue is that in our northern climate a vegetarian diet simply is not sustainable without either importing foods from great distances at a high petroleum cost or by using supplements. A vegetarian diet is simply not sustainable or natural in the northern lands.

    Purported Ethics are another oddity. What many evangelistic vegetarian and vegan people don’t realize is that Billions of animals are killed in the process of producing their vegetable based foods through clearing the land, displacement, tillage, pesticides, herbicides, chemical fertilizers, mechanical weeding and harvest. A vegetarian diet isn’t moral or ethical, it is just another choice which has similar consequences. To insist otherwise is to deny reality and to be hypocritical. If they are against factory farming then go with pastured livestock and keep in mind that factory farming of vegetables is just as bad for the planet.

    I’m all for people making their own choices as to diet, it’s their life, but I don’t like it when people insist that other people have to eat only their way. It is also sad to think that perhaps Mr. Job’s dietary choices deprived him of more years of creativity. I am a big fan of him and what he achieved.

    • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

      Walter, thanks for taking the time to write that well-reasoned post here. You’ve learned to do your own thinking, and it shows.

      I am comfortable with death – my own will come – and to think I can live here without other things dying is just hypocrisy. I eat a diet that helps me develop my physical and emotional and even spiritual skills because it provides more energy than a famine-like vegetarian diet. I give thanks when I eat an animal that grew up near my home and was killed within 10 minutes of where I live. Then I add extra salt and enjoy the meal…

      • BuddhaBandit

        Once again, an idiotic response. Salt is horrible for people and has been linked to all sorts of disease. Again, consult the google machine. You’re a childish moron.

        • Dave Asprey

          LOL – “consult the google machine.” Yes, I did that. Heck, I helped to build the company that ran Google’s first servers. But I actually read the links and the research. To quote the head of the American Hypertension Society, Dr. Alderman, “If you want to live longer, eat more salt.” That was based on a real study of 3,000 people.[http://disqus.com/notifications/notification/pixel.gif][http://juggler.services.disqus.com/event.gif?imp=a926c7b0-0552-40f7-b289-42438bf665c2&zone=notification&thread=439937104&event=email_notification]

        • mhikl

          “The stupid are cocksure; the intelligent are full of doubt.” Bertrand Russell

          You should be ashamed to use the sacred name of the Buddha. Name calling does not a point make save the point of deficit argument.

    • Kiyodada

      46 bones…. and you use rough life as the reason…. A body running high on the acid side requires neutralization to come from where. …. Our bodies are basically cave man cave women but our minds have changed dramatically, and with that understanding and compassion.

      • Walter Jeffries

        You are confused. I have compassion – I kill quickly, cleanly and humanely with the purpose of providing food. What you are have is hyper-empathy which is a disease of modern people, especially those who live in the urban areas and have become divorced from nature. I understand the difference. Fortunately, I’m also tolerant – feel free to be hypocritical in your killing of billions of animals for a vegan diet. Just don’t expect others to follow your bad example.

    • CommonSense

      I don’t consider 46 broken bones a sign of intelligence. The opposite may be true however. “I break a lot of bones…” and therefore?

  • Mike Polsky

    Excellent Article. Congrats on being so well informed, There’s other good blogs you should check out like livin la vida low carb blog, Fathead and Wheat Belly. Google them and you will find them.

  • http://twitter.com/CurtFinch Curt Finch

    Ornish recommends whole plants, which soy products are not. Your post is misleading or outright wrong about what he says to do in many respects.

    • Anonymous

      Dr Ornish does recoomend soy, including soy infant formulas. Here is a link to an itnerview with him:
      http://www.bemindful.org/ornishart.htm

      • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

        Steve, thanks for saving me the time it would take to dig that up. ANY physician who recommends soy formula for infants is committing a crime not only against the infants who drink it, but against their eventual offspring too.

        My comments about the Ornish Diet are based on reading his website and a book or two of his, but a while ago.

  • Fitryan

    Orish Sepctrum diet does include fish also. It is not vegan, but more of a Macrobiotic diet. Because his diets are not strict vegan diets is why you do not see him along side, strict vegan, Dr. Esselstyn and Dr. T. Colin Campbell. The diet is right on Dr. Dean Ornish’s website.

    • Fitryan
    • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

      Thanks Ryan! You’re right – and Jobs did end up being a fish-eater, at least occasionally, if the press reports are to be believed.

      It’s the 70% plus carb – including unhealthy carbs – that did his pancreas in.

      I never thought I’d say this, but Zuckerberg has Jobs beat hands down from a nutritional perspective. Zuckerberg kills what he eats. Jobs just ate a bunch of processed vegetables. (yes, cooking is processing…)

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peggy-Holloway/520343437 Peggy Holloway

        The pancreas is particularly sensitive to fructose – and pancreatic tumours have been shown to feed preferentially on fructose (all tumours feed on sugar). I suspect that it was the high fructose content of his diet for years (especially when he was a fruitarian) that was the major cause of his cancer. I’ve yet to see anyone in the mainstream media make that connection.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lisaannhomic Lisa Ann Homic

    Thanks for the spectrum of foods link. it is crazy, it also allows splenda along with soy. If you are not counting carbs it is a disaster.

  • Rnm354

    There is virtually nothing here that is based in any shape of fact! Aspey could not be more misinformed or worse yet intentionally misleading people.

    He is seriously out to lunch!

    • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

      Yes, but that lunch kept me full for hours, and consisted of grass-fed lamb and some nice asparagus soaked in butter. It made me healthier and more powerful too.

      • John

        Dave, Please WAKE UP and act WITH INTEGRETY. Respond DIRECTLY to the comments of your readers. You have NO BUSINESS posting on the internet if you CANNOT TAKE RESPONSIBILTY for yourself and your writings. Dave…a friendly call from me to you…GROW UP!!!

        • johnnymcjohnson

          internet: srs business! says the guy screaming in a comment thread ;]

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

      Thanks for the comment, but please back it up with some research if you’re going to criticize others.

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge
  • http://twitter.com/surgesoda Nick Kay

    How could one of the smartest and most innovative people of our generation have been lead to believe that a diet could somehow have an impact on treating cancer? This is unreal. This guy ornish should really stop practicing “medicine”

  • Edbigcat

    Asprey has the physiology and biochemistry down pat. Fat is the primary fuel for the body’s cells. Except the brain. The critics here do not comprehend physiology obviously. Dependence on epidemiology tantamounts to wearing blinders. Congrats to Dave for getting the science correct. Those of you who don’t understand what he said are too lazy or maybe too arrogant to learn. Granted, his Bio is a promotion piece…. but anyone who is self employed must toot the horn. REALITY DISTORTION!

    • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

      Thank you sir! Everything in my bio is true, and it’s also there to help people understand who I am and why I’m blogging. I have a full time job as an executive in the tech industry. This blog is here because I like to help people. And I hope to sell a few books one day, but selling a book won’t pay me more than I make in 2 months in my career already.

      I’m motivated by the truth and by helping people feel better and do more. I am annoyed that no one told me this stuff when I was 25 and 300lbs and sick all the time. I shouldn’t have had to hack myself!

  • Anonymous

    I think something that is missing from this conversation is metabolic type. Some metabolic types do fine on carbs and low fats while for others it has disastrous health consequences. This is why some people cure cancer on a Macrobiotic diet or Gerson therapy and some people get worse, and why some people heal on a Weston Price/ Paleo/ Bulletproof diet and some get worse. There is tons of research on this going back to Weston Price as well. Google “kelley, metabolic type” and start reading. Here is a link with lots of articles on this issue http://www.distance-healer.com/84.html Dr. Kelley cured himself of pancreatic cancer on a vegetarian diet, but then when he tried this same diet on his wife she got deathly ill, it wasn’t until she started eating meat that she got well. His studies started from there when he realized the truth of biochemical individuality. Here is another article on more studies around this. http://www.bloodph.com/articles/pwk-revisited.asp I have been a vegetarian for 25 years because I thought it was the healthy diet, but recently when I went through metabolic typing (drinking a glucose drink and measure how your body responds, among other things) I discovered I was a fast oxidizer/ protein type and needed to be eating meat at every meal. It’s been a journey for me to let go of my identity as a vegetarian and start consuming meat, but I know now that my body needs it now. I have always been so confused about trying to make sense of wonderful cancer healing diets such as macrobiotic or Gerson Vs. Weston Price / Paleo. They both made sense to me and a good number of people seem to do great on both of them, I just couldn’t reconcile how both diets could work well for some people. Now understanding metabolic type, it all makes sense now. Bottom line is there is no right diet for every person, each person is different metabolically and you need to eat the right diet for your particular body. There are also two good books out there on the subject. The Metabolic Typing Book, and The Nutrition Solution, your guide to your metabolic type. I wonder if Steve Jobs was a fast oxidizer and was mistakenly eating the wrong diet for his metabolic type. Dr. Gonzales is another doctor who has very high cure rates for pancreatic cancer, he uses metabolic diet and puts some people on a vegetarian diet and some people eating meat three times a day. There is a great interview with him and Dr. Mercola on the death of Steve Jobs, he says that Steven’s acupuncturist wanted Steve to go see Dr. Gonzales, but it never happened. Here is a link to that interview http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/09/dr-nicholas-gonzalez-on-steve-jobs.aspx

    • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

      Maray, that’s a good point. I’ve studied metabolic typing, read the books, talked with hundreds of people about their experiences, looked at blood type eating, etc. I am convinced that some people can survive better than others on a veg/carb diet, but also that those people ALSO do better on a high healthy (saturated unprocessed) fat diet, with slight (if any) adjustments to protein content. One of the many reasons the Bulletproof Diet works so well is simply that all metabolic types need fat, and bodies flourish when they are convinced that they live in a world that has a more than adequate food supply. Fat in the diet does that. There are 8 other reasons I’ve identified, from gall bladder emptying/bile circulation to metabolic efficiency (mitochondiral function) to mycotoxins, etc. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t feel, look, and perform better on a higher saturated fat diet.

      Steve Jobs would have too, and that’s sad.

    • Jeng

      Those are some good points, Maray. Yes, some people probably can do better on a high carb, high starch, low fat diets. Sad that Michio Kushi, the leader of modern macrobiotics, had colon cancer several years ago. Also his wife Aveline Kushi, and daughter Lily both DIED of cancer. But Michio Kushi and macrobiotics claims (has done for since the 70s-80s and probably more strongly then) to be a preventive and cure for cancer. There are good things about macrobiotics, such as removing processed foods and increasing whole plant foods, but removing all animal products and most fat (yes, fish may be eaten occasionally, but it’s not encouraged – and the diet has apparently made some adjustments in recent years. Hey, Gynneth Paltrow used to be macrobiotic, but I recently read she and her kids are low carb, omni now) with the emphasis that animal product cause disease is misguided. Of course, low quality and processed animal foods are not beneficial (same for the quality of fats), but fat and quality animal foods are.

      Michio Kushi doesn’t have a thorough understanding of human nutrition and it’s arrogant that for decades he had said that a macrobiotic diet will (or can) cure cancer and prevent it. Geez, half of family got cancer and two are dead from cancer. Sorry to ramble about macrobiotics. Thanks for the info about metabolic typing; I’ve read about it briefly. The thing is, people want simple answers and generalizations, most probably won’t go through a detailed experience to try to discover what metabolic type they are.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NH35W2R7AP5ZKI3QDKWHTOMYUI Jack Stapleton

    C’mon, dude, get a grip. People die. You will too. Get used to it. There is no need to assign blame to a cancer death. 50% of pancreatic cancer diagnosis end in death. It was Jobs time to die. Everybody can’t live to 76. That’s why its an average. Half the people die before that.

    • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

      Jack, people die, yes. It’s just sad when they die early because they were fooled – by well meaning people – into doing stupid things that shortened their lives.

  • Anonymous

    “Sadly, vegetarians have a higher mortality rate than people who eat meat.”

    What a load of bull. The overwhelming evidence from numerous studies dating back many decades says otherwise. And listening to a buddhist monk that goes opposite to the teachings of the Buddha is very much like listening to a priest who go opposite to what Jesus preached, which unfortunately is very common place. BTW, I’m vegetarian for 34 years and its never hindered my health or martial arts ability.

  • Rlkindelan

    Yes, Jack Stapleton, we all die, but Steve was ill before he was fifty with all the power and money one would need, plus fame, plus a family he dearly loved and loved him. Does the fact that we all die mean we simply press our skulls to cell phones, sit most of the day in front of a TV or monitor, eat junk food, etc., this is about finding answers not say, “We all die, what the heck difference does it make!” Dying of the stuff we die of is not the norm, it’s painful, hideous, and often way too soon. Should one say we just have to go with whatever is thrown at us by corporations who have declared war on us in that they manufacture stuff that addicts us, makes us fat, ugly, stupid and dead? There are some of us who are fighting back, not those who say, “Oh well, we all die.” That is defeatist and gives our enemies cart blanc permission to destroy our health with lies, not just harmless fibs, but death dealing lies that will most assuredly kill us sooner than we need to die. They are allowed to continue, that is, dispersing deadly drugs, deadly food, deadly ideas, deadly water, deadly air in our home and vehicles, and setting our children up to be ill and programmed to eat junk most of their short lives and rarely enjoy vibrant health. Our trouble is we refuse to go after the source of our problems and instead accept the knife, the chemo, the radiation, the drugs, the moronic psychiatrists who only dispense drugs and rarely anything else as our lot in life. Our health system is not a health system, it’s a disease system where there’s money to be made keeping illnesses ongoing and profitable for those in the disease business. Yes, of course, there are some good things that happen in treating people of their ills, but it’s becoming more and more rare, usually we end up drugged, stupid, dependent on stuff that does harm and little good and it rarely does. As far as Dean Ornish goes, the man is deluded, he hasn’t a clue what works, after all, he didn’t learn about health, he learned about disease and recommends such things as soy, SOY!, that borderlines on criminal behavior and obviously the man is either foolish, stupid, or insane and maybe all three. Nobody in their right mind, after reading a stack of research exposing soy for what it is, “Not for humans or much else,” would recommend such junk unless one buys into Archer Daniels the soy producers who love the fact that people are getting dumber each day. Those who eat soy haven’t read what soy is, they simply don’t get it. For Steve Jobs to allow Dean Ornish into his life on the scale that he did, is simply bizarre. One look at Ornish and anyone with the ability to read faces and body language knows there is something very odd about that cat, in fact, would anyone want to do what he recommends, you might end up looking like him and that would be an awful prospect. Vegetarians might think they’re doing what is best, no doubt they do, but what they’ve really done is to choose vegetarianism because it seemed the lesser of three evils, meat, Vegan or vegetarian. Let’s try a simple experiment, take a loaf of bread, the yeastiest, most whole grain bread on the planet, and fruit and vegetables for one tribe. The other tribe simply meat, butter or lard and water. Let’s place them in the Arctic for a month and see the results from traveling from one end to the other as long as a month lasts. Which diet would you choose? Use common sense, not some Ornish or Campbell nonsense.

    • http://twitter.com/undercovermoms Marzipan Souffle

      Stress is #1 cause of disease.Not food.Stress causes abuse of modern life,including food.Answer is not to obsess over stress.These are personal issues.Not a cookie cutter plan,one size fits all.

      • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

        Love the name, Marzipan. :) The problem is that low fat, processed food increases stress hormones. Meditating on a soy-filled belly does not do the same thing as meditating on a grass-fed beef filled belly. And meditating on an empty belly that formerly held grass fed beef a few hours earlier is the best of all.

    • Kiyodada

      Really…. place them in the Arctic for a month and see the results …. let’s place them at the equator for a month and then see….

  • Laura Taylor

    Asprey (and the public) needs to be educated about the differences in vegan, flexitarian, GMO, GMO-free, processed foods, vegetarian, raw foods, whole foods, and plant-based eating behaviors before making conclusions and claims such as these. This is void of much research and evidence, outside of Asprey’s and Job’s personal experience (Jobs’ experience not even specifically outlined). The article is heavily Asprey biased, whether his lifestyle or perspective is for the better of humanity or not. As is the behavior of many dieting companies, hospitals, Western Medicine Institutes, pharmaceutical companies, Western Medicine, government officials and government funded companies, most of which are greatly influenced by their financially beneficial and/or political connections. Something Asprey might want to disregard with his personal agenda, is that there is a simple and undeniable digestive and structural likeness that Humans share with common herbivores in the animal kingdom, and have greater differences with carnivores. Chimps, some of our closest relatives, go meat happy in infrequently desperate situations (based on J.Goodall’s research), but are dominantly plant junkies. We are free to masticate car keys, earrings and five 7 lb steaks a day if we want, it’s the Modern World, where people can put whatever they want in their open mouths. But some things can’t rapidly change the way they are designed, no matter how developed and advanced our civilization becomes or tries to manipulate us. There is much more to this subject than this article or this response or the responses preceding mine contain. Anybody viewing this article should investigate the subject of raw and whole foods and plant-based lifestyles before writing them off at Asprey’s contemplation.

  • L2 Thu Tee

    Asprey (and the public) needs to be educated about the differences in vegan, flexitarian, GMO, GMO-free, processed foods, vegetarian, raw foods, whole foods, and plant-based eating behaviors before making conclusions and claims such as these. This is void of much research and evidence, outside of Asprey’s and Job’s personal experience (Jobs’ experience not even specifically outlined). The article is heavily Asprey biased, whether his lifestyle or perspective is for the better of humanity or not. As is the behavior of many dieting companies, hospitals, Western Medicine Institutes, pharmaceutical companies, Western Medicine, government officials and government funded companies, most of which are greatly influenced by their financially beneficial and/or political connections. Something Asprey might want to disregard with his personal agenda, is that there is a simple and undeniable digestive and structural likeness that Humans share with common herbivores in the animal kingdom, and have greater differences with carnivores. Chimps, some of our closest relatives, go meat happy in infrequently desperate situations (based on J.Goodall’s research), but are dominantly plant junkies. We are free to masticate car keys, earrings and five 7 lb steaks a day if we want, it’s the Modern World, where people can put whatever they want in their open mouths. But some things can’t rapidly change the way they are designed, no matter how developed and advanced our civilization becomes or tries to manipulate us. There is much more to this subject than this article or this response or the responses preceding mine contain. Anybody viewing this article should investigate the subject of raw and whole foods and plant-based lifestyles before writing them off at Asprey’s contemplation.

    • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

      L2, if you read my blog a little more, you’ll find that I was a cooked vegetarian for a year, and a raw vegetarian for 4-5 months before adding raw meat and being a raw omnivore for another several months. I am opposed to GMO for reasons that are obvious if you read the research. My nutrition book, with 1300 references, is being published by Wiley next year. I also address the topsoil-destroying habits of vegetarians who kill thousands of animals (mice, rabbits, insects, amphibian, reptile) every time they eat something harvested by tractor. If I stick to beef, I kill 0.7 animals per year if I eat 2 pounds of grass-fed organic beef every year. Beat that, soil-killer. :)

      • Rl8383

        If you stick to beef for meat, and only eat eat two pounds per year, you’re 99% vegetarian. Did you mean per month? Per week? And furthermore, Ornish’s diet, as I understand it, is geared primarily toward people whose first concern is heat disease, like Bill Clinton, who follows Ornishes’ advice. As a person with a family history of heart disease, I’ll choose to to take my advice from Ornish and Mr. Clinton over some douche with electrodes on his head, who can’t manage to spell and grammar check his own book-pimping blog…Bio-hack.

      • Maada

        Dave, so you promote eating grass-fed organic beef… Cute, but please note that fighting the plant-based diet so hard you give arguments to all these “normal” beef eaters (more than 90% of total beef eaters I guess). Think about it.
        And “normal” meat eaters are responsible for suffering and death of not only industrially raised animals, but also of much greater number of mice, rabbits and so on than any vegan person, as a cow eats much more soya one day than a vegan in a month.
        I think you’re smart enough to realize that feeding 7 billions (and soon more) people with grass-fed cows is utopic. We’d have to give them every inch of land and be buried under billions of tones of their sheet first..
        Does it seem a perfect solution? I doubt..

        Your article is so completely unreliable to me.. and your arguments are so weak..

        • Dave Asprey

          LOL – I’m pretty clear that industrial beef is as bad for you as vegetarian diet. Read further, and you’ll see my points about sustainability of scalability of distributed beef production. The podcast with Polyface Farms is a good place to start. Just golf courses turned into pasture land would feed most people…1 cow per 3 acres produces 2-3 sticks of butter per day.

    • http://theinconvenienttruthonwhaling.blogspot.com/ kujirakira

      “Chimps”

      … aren’t humans.
      We’re omnivores, like it or not. You should take your own advice:
      “But some things can’t rapidly change the way they are designed, no matter how … our civilization … tries to manipulate us”

      Science has demonstrated that a major factor in our split from mere chimps, and the development of our brain housing group, is directly related to the consumption of meat.
      If you want to go backwards in evolution, that’s your prerogative. But please stop the propaganda and harmful misinformation.
      http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html

      PS If I eat 100kg of minke whale a year (you can’t get more free range than that), I kill 0.023 animals per year.
      Guarantee it’s healthier than your soy or beef too. (Hg disinformation and fear-mongering notwithstanding)

  • Aa

    obviously, >20 IQ points did not help much. lots of blabber

    • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

      Yes, but 100 pounds less blubber based on what I learned…

  • http://twitter.com/slowfoodist Eris Budzinski

    This is a beautiful post and so critical for people to know about diet and cancer. A friend of mine passed away last month – 36 years old. Although she had never smoked in her life, she died from lung cancer. I wish she had heard something like this about the effects of diet on a disease like cancer; it could have extended her life.

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

      Thanks so much for commenting Eris.

      I’m sorry your friend had to die so young.

  • Ull

    I think you can just about write the next one:
    Robin Gibb apparently seems to think that the way to avoid dying of the same intestinal complications as his brother is to eat a vegan diet … doesn’t really seem to work.

  • Musesum

    Searching “Jobs Cancer Diet” led me here. I had met Dean Ornish, knew he was Jobs’s personal physician.

    First off, an inaccuracy on your post. Ornish prominently features fish in his recommendations, including the spectrum book. In fact, I believe he, his wife, and most of us in that group had ordered fish for lunch.

    Second, it has been stated elsewhere that Ornish was still Jobs physician at the end. Given that Jobs was passionate about the root cause and cures to his disease, I doubt that Ornish would still be around if his techniques had serious and obvious flaws. A prominent part of Ornish’s technique is stress relief. I suspect that acting as a mercurial micro manager CEO growing a company to be that largest in the World is the opposite of giving space for the body to accept treatment and heal itself.

    Finally, there’s the metrics, as quoted from Wikipedia: “A 1999 metastudy combined data from five studies from western countries.[68] The metastudy reported mortality ratios, where lower numbers indicated fewer deaths, for fish eaters to be 0.82, vegetarians to be 0.84, occasional meat eaters to be 0.84. Regular meat eaters and vegans shared the highest mortality ratio of 1.00. ”

    I wasn’t in on the conversation between Jobs and Ornish. Neither were you. Maybe there are flaws in the Ornish approach. There are metrics that bear out results with the Ornish approach as effective.

    I am rather interested in Maray1’s comment, here, that may help put metabolic type in context. Science and medicine is an iterative process.

    • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

      Musesum, those metrics are based on commercial meat which is fed hormones, antibiotics, and the same nasty soy and corn that vegetarians eat. Grass-fed meat is far superior for preventing and reducing diseases; the best evidence comes from Weston A Price Foundation historically, or any of the presentations at the recent Ancestral Health Symposium.

      I’m confused about the fish stuff. Webmd says at http://www.webmd.com/diet/ornish-diet-what-it-is that he’s against fish. So do almost all sites I could find. Are they all wrong? I’m glad to edit my blog if the facts are wrong and I appreciate you bringing that up.

      Another curiosity is the Ornish focus on stress reduction. I’m a huge fan of it – I am a certified Heart Math trainer and use electronic devices to help with stress measurement and to train it downwards. But eating low fat *increases* stress because it tells your body you’re about to starve to death, that you’re living in a place where your next meal is uncertain.

      • Musesum

        In the Spectrum book, fish is first mentioned on page 42 in relation to Omega-3 oils and on several pages from page 92 on protein choices.

        All sources of food have their contaminants.Some fish has mercury. Non-organic Soy has pesticides. Red meat has hormones. Agi-biz crowding adds stress for animals raised for meat. Generally speaking, the higher up the food chain, the more opportunities for contamination.

        There is no breakdown of commercial versus organic in the study. So, I find the metric to be generally useful.

        The spectrum book does not have a magic bullet. It suggests a mixture of: lower glycemic index carbs, better types of fat in smaller amounts, lowering stress, and including exercise. The role of fats in moderating insulin levels is not in conflict with what I’ve read in the spectrum book. The book has an extensive bibliography of studies – I like the ebook version in that you can cut-paste-and-search the citations.

        • http://twitter.com/bulletproofexec Dave Asprey

          Thanks Musesum. Looks like there’s tons of conflicting info on the web about Ornish and fish, but if his book says its on the diet, it’s on the diet. Edits forthcoming!

          The huge gains in wellness that come from eating non-stressed, grass-fed red meats are obvious from a blood chemistry perspective, from a “how do I feel” perspective, and from any of the paleo diet forums online. It doesn’t matter what studies say “red meat is bad” if they don’t say what kind of red meat and how it’s prepared. Comparing grass-fed to commercial factory meat is like comparing sashimi to Long John Silver’s. They’re both fish, but they do opposite things to the body!

    • Anonymous

      These metrics establish that veganism is unhealthy and fish-eating is healthier than either veganism and lacto-ovo vegetarianism. But if the studies were done in North America or Europe, they would conflate eaters of grain-fed and processed meats with eaters of grass-fed meats. It would be interesting to see studies done in Australia or NZ where almost all livestock are grass-fed. You would still confuse the issue a bit by including procesed meats, but I think just excluding grain-fed meat would see better outcomes for the meat-eaters.

  • Scruggsfan543

    I agree. Five years ago I tried the Ornish diet for heart health and it almost killed me. Mytotal cholesterol at the time before the diet was low. He claims in his book that even for people with low cholesterol that his very low fat diet is optimal. My hair began to thin, my personality became obsessive, and my total cholesterol dropped below 100. Because of the obsessiveness I stayed on the diet for a year. It was one of the worst decisions of my life. consider it one of the darkest times of my life. When I quit and started eating meat again my family said “welcome back.” Some of the damage it did is still with me, like my thinning hair. I don’t have problems with people being vegans but one must realize that everyone is different and even though Ornish would disagree, his plans are not right for the vast majority and could be dangerous to many. I think he is very irresponsible with his advice.

  • life_watch

    Humans are VEGAN based on DNA studies.( read: Beyond Bones and Stones) Jobs had his immune system stressed by his hepatectomy-( big mistake) Watch Forks over Knives, new documentary movie that confirms studies by Cleveland Clinic and Cornell university with over 30 years of clinical trials, per reviewed. The main author is Dr. Campbell, from the US, Chinese, etc National Academy of Sciences. The study included 600 million people, called THE CHINA STUDY. Lectures about this are in the net. Jobs was not dumb or weird, he was just ahead of all of us. Learn from him. Besides, animal diet is causing 50% of global warming – See NASA and NOAA reports.

    • Anonymous

      A study is only good if you base your conclusions off the data you got, which unfortunately Campbell did not do.

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

      For everyone here who keeps referencing the new vegan film “Forks Over Knives” as if it were a scientific study, please read this article by Anthony Colpo.

      http://anthonycolpo.com/?p=2258

    • Anonymous

      “Besides, animal diet is causing 50% of global warming”

      Right there is the bias that makes most official nutrition advice suspect.

    • Rob

      The Chin a study??? Really???

      “But in the end it is still only an observational study. And even though – again, according to Dr. Campbell – there are over 8000 statistically significant correlations, correlations are not causation. Any scientist worth his/her salt will tell you that all you can do with data from observational studies is use them to form hypotheses that can be rigorously tested in randomized, controlled trials. Then and only then (assuming the study results show it) can you even begin to talk about causation. The whole enterprise, costly and time consuming though it was, was described perfectly by Shakespeare in the words of MacBeth:

      …it is a tale
      Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
      Signifying nothing.

      Repeat after me one last time: Correlation is not causation, correlation is not causation, correlation is not causation…”

      On page 107 of The China Study Dr. Campbell writes:

      QUOTE: “The China Study was an important milestone in my thinking. Standing alone, it does not prove that diet causes disease.” – Dr Campbell.

      You can read the whole article that picks apart the study here:

      http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cancer/the-china-study-vs-the-china-study/

  • cy:beh

    There’s no statistical significance in the sad passing of Steve Jobs and his choice vegan diet. I’m a vegan and know many people who are, even babies born vegan grown up to be lively and healthy and smart big kid!

    If one subscribe to the scientific method, then one would take a close look at a proper sample size then carry out the analysis. Look at the work of Prof. T. Colin Campbell (The China Study), Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn (www.HeartAttackProof.com), Dr. Neal Barnard (www.pcrm.org), Dr. John McDougall and many many more!

    Hope you’d spend a bit more time and reassess your call.

    Veganista – cy:beh

    • Anonymous

      The fact that you even bothered to reference the China Study shows you are not a subscriber to the scientific method. What a load of crap that was. Read Denise Minger.

      • cy:beh

        I cited 3: Prof. Campbell, Dr. Barnard & Dr. Esselstyn. You only picked out The China Study.

        The China Study was an epidemiology study, nothing wrong with that? http://www.thechinastudy.com/ – The New York Times has recognized the study (China-Oxford-Cornell Diet and Health Project) as the “Grand Prix of epidemiology” and the “most comprehensive large study ever undertaken of the relationship between diet and the risk of developing disease.”

        Combine Prof. T. Colin Campbell’s work with Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, the evidences of the goodness of plant-based diet are self-evident; their work has been nicely introduced in “Forks over Knives” – 2011
        http://video.rol.ro/forks-over-knives-55557.htm

        The feature film Forks Over Knives examines the profound claim that most, if not all, of the degenerative diseases that afflict us can be controlled, or even reversed, by rejecting animal-based and processed foods.

        In addition to Dr. Esselstyn and Prof. Campbell, I’ve based my studies on the work of these good doctors as well: Dr. Michael Klaper (www.doctorklaper.com, http://www.healthpromoting.com/doctors/dr-michael-klaper), Dr. John McDougall (www.drmcdougall.com), Dr. Michael Greger (www.veganmd.org), Dr. Gabriel Cousens (www.gabrielcousens.com), Dr. Joel Furhman (www.drfuhrman.com) and more.

        Last but not least, I’ve also based my conviction on the empirical data by experimenting on myself, as well as the positive results I see in people that I interact with everyday.

        If you would elaborate on your disagreement with The China Study, I’d be more than happy to respond either myself or the good man himself.

        Good Health to you :)

        Cheers!

        cy:beh

        • Anonymous

          I picked him out because his work is the one that I know to be shoddy, and thus the only one I have a beef with being cited. I am not familiar with the work or data of rest and thus make no comment on them.

          My problem is not with the data from the China Study itself, but rather with the way Campbell interprets them and that includes his interviews in Forks over Knives.

          I’m somewhat surprised that my mere mention of Denise Minger did not automatically ring a bell as I’d think those familiar with his work would be familiar with one of his biggest critics as well, especially since he’s responded to her as well. I’ll just link to her general collection of criticisms of his work: http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/

          As far as n=1 experiments goes, I too, interact with many who, did *not* give up their meat, but did become much healthier by virtue of giving up grains, legumes, and the processed foods common in the Standard American Diet.

          The problem with most studies in my experience, especially cited by those who favor plant-based diets, is they lump “meat-eating” with people who eat *everything*, including all the other junk that’s part of SAD eating, which also has confounding factors like many who go vegetarian generally lead a healthier lifestyle (less smoking, drinking, more exercising, less junk food, etc. ) Is it really the plant-based diet that makes them healthier, or is it the above other factors? What would be more interesting would a long-term study comparing people who actively try to lead healthy lifestyles: veganism, vegetarianism, bodybuilder/atheletes, paleo/primal, and then the SAD eaters as their own category.;

        • cy:beh

          I’m familiar with Denise Minger, and Prof. Campbell has responded to her long ago, 11 pages in all:
          http://www.tcolincampbell.org/fileadmin/Presentation/finalmingercritique.pdf

          http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/07/china-study-author-colin-campbell-slaps-down-critic-denise-minger.html

          If you’re familiar with Dr. Esselstyn’s work and that of Dr. Neal Barnard’s and others in my list of M.D., you’d find that many patients who suffered from diabetes, heart disease have seen the diseases reversed and attained optimal health without the use of drugs & mechanical medical intervention, all based on low-fat plant-based diet.

          When we combine Prof. Campbell’s epidemiology studies with those of other medical doctors, I’d say, sufficiently convincing light has been shed on the efficacy of the plant-based diet in reversing the major killer diseases. But I agree with you, a grand long-term study should be carried out as well to shed more light on this issue.

          Good health & cheers!

          cy:beh

        • Dalittlebro

          A great book to read is The Untold Story of Milk. Since Campbell uses casein as the main culprit and uses it to represent all animal proteins, it is beneficial to dig in to the bigger story. Food is more complex than a singled-out protein that we can measure. We will never be able to measure the infinite complexities of our food. “Junk” milk is junk – a highly refined and processed food. But 100% grass-fed, organic, raw whole milk is liquid gold. Our country’s [non-sprouted] grain based food system is nothing more than toxic waste.

        • cy:beh

          By the way, I’ve personally met Prof. Campbell and I also find him to be a scientist of the highest caliber, more importantly, a man of honesty and humility, and above all, objective in carrying out his scientific work, which spans more than 3 decades.

          Here I quote the last paragraphs of Prof. Campbell’s response to Denise Minger:

          I suggest that those people who are so hostile to this message take another look at their reasoning. There is far more to this story than the interpretation of the scientific data
          alone. There are major issues of health care and health care costs, there are serious environmental issues that have not been adequately communicated to the public, and
          there are political, social and ethical issues that must be considered. Of most importance, there are people who deserve to hear this message—namely, the taxpayers who funded this work. For me to do anything less than to report on these findings is both immoral and unethical. In the current discussions about this issue, I
          would urge that it is vitally important that all of us keep these ideas in mind, while being very careful not to promote ideas simply for the sake of defending one’s own personal
          preferences. I strongly believe that discussion of these issues focus outwardly for the sake of all of us, not just inwardly for the satisfaction of personal ego.

          My greatest mistake throughout this process may have been our acquiescence to our
          publisher’s choice for our book’s title. We suggested 200 possible titles, not one of which was ‘The China Study’. But when we objected, he said that we already had signed the contract and this was his right and responsibility. We felt locked in, especially because we had already explored publication with about 10 other publishers, some of whom had offered advances (one very large), if we did it their way. Because we had
          refused to accept their suggestions (including at least half the book as recipes, going easy on the references and ‘dumbing down’ the language), it seemed clear that we had no other choice than to go along with our new publisher who accepted our way of telling this story.

          Obviously, the title of our book has been misleading for some because of the
          inappropriate weight suggested by the China project itself. When these rather novel data are considered both in reference to biologically plausible, multi-factor models of causation and in reference to the large body of other kinds of studies discussed in the
          book, the China project database becomes very important. But relying on the results of this study in isolation, especially when unadjusted univariate correlations are used, is
          not appropriate.

          End Quote.

          By the way, here’s another report on the downside of Livestock Industry:
          http://www.worldwatch.org/files/pdf/Livestock%20and%20Climate%20Change.pdf
          http://51percent.org/

          It’s not just health issue alone, that’s why eating low at the food chain, adopting the plant-based diet is such an elegantly simple and simply elegant solution to the many crises we’re faced with.

          Healthy People, Healthy Planet.

          Cheers!

          cy:beh

        • Anonymous

          That’s why Paleo/Primal eaters tend to focus on sustainable farming, rather than getting food from CAFOs. BTW, industrial agriculture is also incredibly environmentally damaging. Generic plant-based diets (especially the most common crops of wheat, soy, and corn) are still more environmentally damaging than farms using more sustainable farming methods that also involve the use of animals to naturally improve the plants and soil.

        • Anonymous

          And as expected, I could not find a single reference to local, pastured, or sustainable farming in that worldwatch article. This is essentially the same problem I have with the commonly cited studies about how plant-based diets are oh-so-awesome. They essentially create a strawman that both sides agree is bad, without actually addressing the other side’s position.

        • cy:beh

          Thing is 99% of all animals eaten in the US come from Factory Farming. (ref: Eating Animals by Jonathan Foer, http://www.eatinganimals.com/)

          http://www.ciwf.org.uk/what_we_do/factory_farming/default.aspx?gclid=CPSY84SanKwCFY0c6wodaS591g

          For more just Google away… :)

          For Healthy People and Health Planet and Compassion For Animals.

          cy:beh

        • Anonymous

          Oh certainly, I’d say we both agree that factory farming is cruel and unsustainable. But so does our insistence on massive chemical use for fertilizers and pesticides and eating out-of-season fruits and vegetables ripened with ethylene gas as well as all the monoculture crop fields being planted and destroying old animal habitats. Modern industrial agriculture is basically unsustainable, whether it be plants or animals.

        • cy:beh

          Yes, for sustainable ecology, chemical fertilizers have to go, they’ve been killing the planet, destroying soils and killing oceans. The short term primary effects of chemical fertilizers have been positive in that they boost production, but the higher order effects are all negative.

          However, if we recognize that
          50-80% grains grown are being fed to animals, we could adopt organic farming using non-chemical fertilizers.

          “If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million,” David Pimentel, professor of ecology in Cornell University’s College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, reported at the July 24-26 meeting of the Canadian Society of Animal Science in Montreal.
          http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/08/970812003512.htm

          Roughly 25,000 square kilometers or 6 million acres of the Amazon rainforest is cut down every year for grazing cattle and to grow soybeans that are used for animal feed.
          http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/feed/

          Eating low in the food chain is the way to go, we’d get the biggest bang for our bucks in our efforts to tackle the many global crises we’re faced with, that’s my general big picture humble view. :)

          Another good source of info:
          http://www.WorldPreservationFoundation.org

          Cheers!

          cy:beh

        • Anonymous

          “There are major issues of health care and health care costs, there are serious environmental issues”

          Right there is why the guy is unconsciously biased.

        • Anonymous

          And Denise has responded to Campbell’s reply, and followed up a year later with additional studies based on the China Study data that contradict Campbell’s claims.

          As far as the improved health anecdotes, the same can be said of those who follow Paleo/Primal/anti-grain diets as well. Which, to me, says it’s not actually the low-fat plant-based diets that’s the cure. It’s the fact that both types of diets get rid of all the modern processed foods that’s probably the most helpful.

          I have seen many stories, and read books of those who started with the plant-based diets, felt good for a period of time, and then started feeling worse and worse until they started adding meat back into their diet. On the other hand, how many people do you know who have gone from a Primal/Paleo type diet to a plant-based diets and felt better?

        • cy:beh

          Do you have a link to Minger’s follow up reply to Prof. Campbell? Appreciate it.

          Eating non-animal based vegetarian but junk diet doesn’t constitute health. I can’t comment on what you’ve observed on those who switched their diets from veg to something else. I can only speak for myself and my verification of the work of the many doctors and scientists I’ve cited based on the results of experimenting on myself and many many folks I see around me.

          There’s been too much noise out there. That’s why I totally agree with you that a grand scientific experiment should be carried out and have the results published for all to see.

        • Anonymous
        • cy:beh

          Hopefully some grand experiments can be organized sooner than later.

          Meanwhile, I shall stick to my plant-based vegan diet, which is doing me just fine, no visit to doctors for about 2 decades, and remain active in sports.

          Let’s keep tap on Bill Clinton’s health condition as well.

          Cheers & Good Health!

          cy:beh

        • Anonymous

          Indeed. At the end of the day, we need to follow what works for us. :)

          It was an enjoyable conversation. Good heath to you too!

  • Anonymous

    Hi Dave,

    radical physicians who tout incredibly low fat diets with strict avoidance of (healthy) saturated fats as the path to health, despite years of research showing how misguided that is. (See Gary Taubes epic work “Good Calories Bad Calories”

    Taubes has his heart in the right place, and he’s doing the world a service by getting people off useless starches, but he’s not a scientist. Avoiding saturated fats is not radical: Please see this discussion on saturated fat: http://www.mprize.org/blogs/archives/2010/01/hi_dr_feinman_a.html

    A summary:

    What I think we’re seeing is exactly the divergence within these populations that you know: that carb is really rather bad for overweight, insulin-sensitive people, such that replacing it even with SFA is relatively harmless — whereas for lean, insulin-sensitive people, SFA (and dietary cholesterol, its fellow-traveller in omnivorous diets) is likely more *relatively* harmful, because carb is less able to derange the metabolism. We have to remember that any time we look at these studies and see only modest or borderline-significant effects: 66% of the US population is overweight, and half of that majority is obeese; Europe is somewhat better-off, at 49.8% and 13.3% in men and 36.0 & 13.5% in women per MONICA. So the deleterious effects of any nutrient with a differential effect on low-BMI, insulin-sensitive people will tend to be blunted by the much larger number of people for whom such effects are blunted by their “larger” problem.

    It also means that the deleterious effects of a rise in SFA intake are at least temporarily outweighed if it is is part of a dietary shift into a lower-carb diet when it is successfully used for weight loss (as opposed to just being a person’s self-selected default diet, which of course is what’s going on in teh studies in Jakobsen and in the Swedish, Greek, and US Nurses low-carb/high-protein studies). But it’s reasonably clear that if you’re insulin-sensitive — which, interestingly, is what one is likely to become after losing weight on a successful low-carb weight-loss diet! — the effects of SFA become more *relatively* harmful as teh deleterious effects of carb recede.

    >or any competent body building coach for more info…)

    Don’t confuse what’s good for maximizing muscle growth with what’s good for health and staying young. Bodybuilders want to activate mTOR and maximize IGF-1 to block the catabolism of muscle. This is GREAT for maximizing muscle gains. But doing so inhibits the recycling and filtering of damaged proteins, which is bad for aging.

    See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19539012

    That’s the mechanism behind Rapamycin, the most promising anti-aging drug so far. (Resveratrol has been considered a bust for a couple of years now).
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v460/n7253/full/nature08221.html

  • Pingback: Low Carb Paleo Diets vs. Cancer: A Follow-up Note To Steve Jobs | The Bulletproof Executive()

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for a great blog
    Ornish Diet,Weight loss Diet

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

      Thanks for commenting :)

  • Leandro

    The pure vegetarianism is the right choice! Pseudo cientist! People like you use anything to attack vegetarianism! You must study a lot, and find the studies wich comproved a pure vegetarianism prevent many diseases and add more years of HEALTHY life. Because live longer is not enough, we must live longer and HEALTHY. The world is full of very old people, but who are very sick!

    • Anonymous

      “You must study a lot, and find the studies wich comproved a pure vegetarianism prevent many diseases and add more years of HEALTHY life.”

      That’s kind of the opposite of science, actually.

      • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

        You rock Naomi 😀

      • golooraam

        Naomi – you are just badass :)

  • Bremla

    I have been on the Ornish diet for close to 15 years and have not eaten any meat, poultry or fish. I had a heart attack and unfortunately had bypass surgery before finding Dean Ornish, In 15 years I have not had any symptoms or discomfort from my heart. I exercise 5 days a week, do yoga and meditation and feel great. It is the most wonderful experience I’ve had and am sorry I did not know about it before I had surgery, because I would not have had surgery.

    • FairLady

      You are obviously a blood type A. Type A thrives on a vegetarian diet.

      • John

        Blood type diet has been debunked sorry

    • Real World Vegan

      did you ever wonder how much of your health improvement comes from 5 days a week workouts, yoga and meditation?

    • azure

      there is constant growing research that a vegan diet is incredible for preventing disease. As a vegetarian I still had high cholesterol, slightly.. because dairy goes straight into the blood. I swapped out three items I use in my fridge. I got veganaise and through out mayo, I started using Earth Balance spread instead of butter or margerine, and I drink coconut milk from Trader Joe’s, IN LESS THAN ONE MONTH, my triglycerides went from 198 to 107!!!!!! Ive been a veggie for 20 years, Im 51 and noone has any idea about this. I dont look younger “for my age” I look in a totally different age GROUP. I look about 35 Id say. I was carded twice recently. Basically animal meat is EXTREMELY aging on the face and if women knew this they would stop thinking the fountain of youth is in creams sold at Sephora. Theres a grand conspiracy going on thanks to the meat industry that doesn’t want anyone to know this. Research paper after research paper comes out with the latest findings on the merits of a vegan diet. People who dont eat meat are smarter, healthier and because they are smarter seek out other ways of feeling healthy and balanced too, BECAUSE THEY ARE SMARTER. lol Also, what I knew 25 yrs ago is just starting to be proven, that animal meat causes cancer, that the casein in cheese causes cancer, british researchers are on the ball. What I also knew, that meat is very aging, research has just come out on this as well! I based my knowings on observation and testing my own body. I always knew I would look younger when I was older, but not THIS YOUNG. Its great to look so young, be wise, be healthy, stave off disease and be a compassionate person who doesn’t pass the buck by repeating age old cliche rationalizations as a defense mechanism for mental laziness. How could one not benefit through love?

      • Paleo Huntress

        “People who dont eat meat are smarter, healthier and because they are smarter seek out other ways of feeling healthy and balanced too, BECAUSE THEY ARE SMARTER.

        If only that were true. They’re definitely pious, self-important and superior though. Nothing like a woo-filled vegetarian preaching their N=1 experience as if it trumps the data, to make you laugh. It would be so much better if they actually offered data the data that they always claim is there.
        And if they only understood economics better and that the largest, wealthiest, most powerful food lobbies are processed foods and cereal grain agriculture (the first depends on the second) they’d realize just how ridiculous it is to accuse the “meat industry” of conspiracy while sucking at grain’s teat and gazing adoringly into its disease-causing eyes.

      • Paleo Huntress

        To add more, vegetarians statistically have higher levels of advanced glycation end-products (appropriately termed “AGE”s) than omnis. These age the body and cause significant inflammatory responses that lead to disease… which is in total opposition of your claims that vegetarian diets keep you young.

  • Hello

    Actually, Tofurky is one company that pledges not to use genetically modified soybeans. http://www.tofurky.com/ourstory/ingred_gmos.html

  • http://www.salestraininghampshire.co.uk Adam Stevens

    Unfortunately nothing here is peer reviewed, so it’s worthless. Simply to be read as fiction.

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

      Maybe you should read this:

      http://www.bulletproofexec.com/low-carb-paleo-diets-vs-cancer-a-follow-up-note-to-steve-jobs/

      If you’re not convinced by the 15 or so peer reviewed references, please let me know. I’ll find more.

    • BondSummers

      It’s not worthless, you’re showing your lack of awareness. Btw, people’s bodies are variable to some degree, but at core the quality of the food matters, and we thrive best with some fundamental animal products in our diets. Our bodies reveal by results.

  • windexh8er

    Wow, it’s amazing at how much misinformation I found in your post. Fat and carbs are counterproductive – it’s just that Steve’s “Ornish” diet was not what his body needed. He should have looked at juicing for nutritional flooding of the body. Greens such as kale and spinich are known fantastic cancer killers. The only way you can beat something like cancer is to prime your body to an optimal state – carbs and fats are not the answer here. Look at the Gerson way of living and things like the BluePrint cleanse. I juice cleans at least once a month for three days – and during that time I have more energy, sleep amazing and have the highest mental focus at any point in the month. Sometimes that lends to a whole week of cleansing. Fats and carbs are not a required staple of a human diet – look at how we survived thousands of years ago… It wasn’t red meat or bread.

    • Paleo Huntress

      This is an old comment I realize, but have you heard of the term, “Rabbit Starvation”? You are correct that carbohydrate is not essential, but fat most definitely is.

      I am curious about your juice cleanse though (mostly carbs BTW). Anytime I do something like that and kick ketosis into high gear, I too have great energy, but I don’t sleep well. The ketones are like natural speed and you get the energy at the cost of the sleep most times. I find it can be ameliorated after a period of 2-3 weeks, but the first days are always the worst and if a cleanse only lasts a few days… it’s sleepless speeding all the way! lol

      FWIW, Thousands of years ago it WAS red meat… and tens of thousands of years ago, it WAS red meat. Early humans were almost entirely carnivorous according to most all archeological and anthropological evidence and the primary meat source was large herbivores.

  • De Spin

    It’s not a question of health. If you kill animals to eat, you are a criminal. That’s it. Cancer may come to ANYBODY, vegan or eatmeater.

    • cy:beh

      Cancer can be due to many factors. Chief among which, food and toxins in the environment. Steve Jobs’s cancer was unlikely to be due to his vegan diet. For anyone to say so is simply idiotic. It’s not even a correlation worthy of attention. Steve’s delayed surgery probably wasn’t the actual cause of his untimely death either. John McDougall has given a plausible explanation here: http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2011nl/nov/jobs.htm

      There’s a lot of misinformation and disinformation here. But that’s the reality of the tail-end of the information-garbage-age era we live in. Anyone with a blog can BS, wax-lyrical and blah blah blah on just about anything.

      Someone farted in a room in the middle of a dead cold winter, windows of the room wide opened and there’s no heating, someone else in the room caught a damned cold. Was the cold due to the fart? However stinky it is?

      Whoever eats dead animal carcasses and is still able to walk and run like a tiger ain’t proof that the diet is healthful. Time will tell. There’s however another wiser way to tell in shorter time: look at a universe of a meaningful sample size.

      If you doubt the Power of the Plants, check this out:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9OhSmvQlvw

      • Dave Asprey

        Mcdougall’s post is pretty good (unlike his thoroughly discredited diet), but he missed the fructose/mycotoxin/uric acid/kidney connection.

        Insulin speeds cancer growth; it’s a fact. Ornish’s diet raises insulin. Connect the dots…

      • Captain Buzzkill

        Video Is more Fake than 9/11 plane crashes and the Moon Landing….Captain Buzzkill

      • JAS

        I’d have to point out that Dr. Dean Ornish diet was 1/2 right and 1/2 wrong for Steve Jobs. It’s been noted for years…that sugar feeds cancer…..eating high carbs…which convert to sugar causes a feeding frenzy for cancer cells. If you want to kill or at least stop the metastasis of cancer…..Stop feeding cancer patients sugar and carbs! Its pretty simple….So many people are misinformed. Read the pages and pages of scientific research. It states that the body needs fats…Healthy saturated fats (MCFA/MCT) and proteins. So in the example of Steve Jobs he should have been on a restricted carb diet and he should of had healthy MCFA incorporated into his diet that would have fed his healthy cells and deprived his cancer cells.
        I think the problem here is that there is some really good advice by Dr Dean Ornish and also some really bad advice…therefore leaving his followers misguided and misinformed. Pointing out the bad…his advice on fats and oils is incorrect, he is wrong about soy products and his recommended carb intake is too high….Especially if you have Cancer! All this is available for the truth seeker. With a little research one can become aware.
        Keep in mind, we all have different thresh-holds of what our bodies can tolerate and also remember certain sicknesses need certain foods. That should be our guide…what are we treating…and go from there.

        • Stu

          The one of few comments on here that make sense

      • Paleo Huntress

        This guy has only been vegan for ONE YEAR of his 7 years of training. Is that really what you want to hitch your wagon to?

    • Dave Asprey

      De Spin, by your rules, you are a war criminal. Every bowl of Kashi you eat kills more field animals in one day than I eat in a whole year. Grass fed meat is more sustainable than farming.

    • crazydays

      I don’t kill them, my butcher does. I suppose that makes me an accessory to the crime. I say people who smoke pot are criminals.

    • johnnymcjohnson

      are you aware of what the definition of ‘criminal’ is? i only ask because your comment implies you do not.

    • Natalia Adarova

      I cannot stand this spoiled,

    • Real World Vegan

      what if you kill them by mistake while harvesting your veggies? what if you actually know they’re being killed for your food? does that make it less criminal? if a drunk driver kills a pedestrian he wasnt trying to kill, should we give him a free pass because it was an accident? killing someone with your car while under the influence is criminal because the driver made the choice to drive. so then killing animals with tillers, diskers, traps, rifles and combines while growing and harvesting our plant foods should be criminal because we are making a choice to eat those foods too.

  • Haifen

    I love the idea of hacking your body, and congratulate you for undertaking this project. However I really do take issue with this post. It is poorly supported and structured.
    “It is simply unacceptable that unfathomably poor nutritional advice concocted in the 1970?s contributed not only to Steve Jobs’ early demise, but to the fattening of an entire generation.” — This conclusion is wholly without proof, basically accuses Dr. Ornish of Negligence or malpractice (I’m no lawyer) and unless you can prove the above (which you don’t) has exposed you to accusations of slander. I would reconsider the way you have expressed yourself here and try to improve the quality of this article if you want to convince anyone.

    • Dave Asprey

      Haifen, thank you for your comments. There is an entire body of proof about obesity rates and their correlation with low fat diets. It is more than would fit in any blog post – Gary Taubes could barely fit it in 500 pages of “Good Calories, Bad Calories.” I’m stating it as a fact in this post, not an argument that needs further support here.

  • Mfw888888

    Please provide your source for your ‘mortality rate’ quote.

    • Dr. S

      Dr. Mario Martinez, a famous psychoneuroimmunologist, has studied centenarians all over the world. NOT one of them was a vegan.

  • http://twitter.com/SaltationIgnite Saltation Ignite

    “Sadly, vegetarians have a higher mortality rate than people who eat meat. No amount of statistical wiggling is going to disprove this basic fact of human existence.” – ??? FICTION!!!! This is COMPLETELY WORTHLESS and a HORRENDOUSLY stupid article.

    • Aryan

      Agreed. “Vegetarians” having a higher mortality rate than those who eat meat. Statistically flawed I’m sure as the most populous groups of vegetarians are in developing countries such as India and Nepal, where due to poverty, malnutrition, poor access to good medical treatment and clean water are contributing factors that certainly play a role in lower life expectancies.

      DUH.

      • Paleo Huntress

        How do you explain the ones in China?

    • Real World Vegan

      in nations where people avoid meat for religious reasons, they fare much worse than their omnivorous neighbors. this isnt comparing one nation to another, but one group to another within the same nation. the statement is accurate unfortunately.

  • Dean Ornish, M.D.

    You need to get your facts straight.

    I advised Steve Jobs to have surgery early on, but he chose not to do so, which was his decision:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/health/hindsight-is-kind-to-steve-jobss-decision-to-delay-surgery.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Ornish&st=cse

    The diet and lifestyle program I recommend has been proven in 35 years of research in the leading peer-reviewed journals to reverse the progression of even severe coronary heart disease, type 2 diabetes, and to slow, stop or reverse the progression of early-stage prostate cancer as well as to sustainably lower blood pressure, LDL-cholesterol, and weight. It’s also been shown to beneficially change gene expression–turning on disease-preventing genes and turning off genes that promote prostate, breast, and colon cancer– as well as increasing telomerase:

    http://www.ornishspectrum.com/proven-program/the-research/

    I don’t recommend the same diet and lifestyle program for everyone:

    http://www.ornishspectrum.com/medicare-reimbursement/specrtrum-programs/

    Earlier this week, a panel of nutrition experts organized by U.S. News & World Report rated the Ornish diet as #1 for heart health:

    http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-heart-healthy-diets

    Dean Ornish, M.D.
    Founder & President, Preventive Medicine Research Institute
    Clinical Professor of Medicine, University of California, San Francisco
    http://www.ornish.com

    • Dave Asprey

      Dr. Ornish,

      I just emailed you to offer the chance to share your views with listeners to the podcast and readers of the blog. You could have the air time by yourself 1 on 1, or I’d be up for putting together and moderating a panel with you, Jack Kruse and Ray Peat to focus specifically on telomerase. Jack is a neurosurgeon and Ray is a PhD biologist and hormone expert. Jack’s view on telomerase is that it’s all about mitochondrial function. Ray focuses on estrogen and progesterone’s effects on mitochondria. Bill Andrews was recently on my show presenting evidence that “chronic cardio” (ultra marathons) has positive effects on telomerase too.

      I am not an expert on telomerase compared to anyone I just mentioned, but I’m a decent researcher and biohacker. A ketogenic diet reduces oxidative stress (and the Bulletproof Diet also reduces it by controlling omega 6 oils and reducing mycotoxins), and oxidative stress does shorten telomeres. A pretty comprehensive piece of research is at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2649682/

      In any case, I respect the motive behind your work even though we disagree on the best path to health and wellness.

      Thanks,
      Dave

    • Jack Upton

      I’m 55yrs old now. two yrs ago x4 CABG 16blks almost shut dwn, No Heart attack though. nonsmoker 148lbs. 5’6″

      Read your books, also China diet, and Dr Caldwell Esselstyn “Reversing Heart Disease”

      I switched to 99% Vegan diet ( I will eat a small amount of deep water fish once every 2 or 3 weeks) All veggies, fruits and grains Period! (no nuts, dairy or oils) Also, take fish oil, & grnd Flaxseed.

      As Dr Esselstyn states you gotta do everything to protect the endothelium lining your vascular system.

      It’s Not easy. I miss burgers and fries, eggs, etc,,, but i dont like the alternative either. (Never felt so much pain after surgery…uggh!) Live for my family :)

      Thanks for your work Dr Ornish.

      J Upton

      • Q & Q Estate Jewelry LLC

        Be careful, my cousin was on the Ornish diet for 15 years, got off the diet when he had a heart attack at 47.

        It’s funny that you miss burgers, I missed wheat for a while… Missing wheat goes away… You’ll always miss meat, because we’re supposed to eat it… :)

        • Jamie

          False. I don’t miss meat at all.

        • http://mercetron.blogspot.com/ Dan Eriksson

          You miss fat, not meat. You need fat. You don’t need meat.

        • Real World Vegan

          i miss meat. i get plenty of fat and i still miss meat. its interesting that you think you know what strangers miss. when i went vegan, it didn’t give me psychic abilities like yours. i feel cheated now.

        • http://mercetron.blogspot.com/ Dan E.

          I’m as much vegan and psychic as you are succeeding in being funny right now.

        • Real World Vegan

          funny? im serious. who do i talk to about getting a partial refund?

        • http://mercetron.blogspot.com/ Dan E.

          Try again.

        • Real World Vegan

          awww poop dude. did veganism steal your humor too? maybe there is a limited supply so we cant each get both. i got the humor and you got the mind-reading.

          im not worried, the omnis will find it hilarious. i encourage you to tell me again that im not funny. maybe the third times the charm.

        • http://mercetron.blogspot.com/ Dan E.

          Just a little bit harder. You can do it!

        • Real World Vegan

          :)

        • Aryan

          If we were supposed to eat it, we would not have flat teeth and small digestive systems. We would not have to have discovered fire – without which meat would not be safe for us to eat. We would have sharp teeth and larger digestive systems that would allow meat to pass through quickly, like meat eating animals.

        • Real World Vegan

          thats actually quite the opposite of the truth. carnivores have very short guts compared to herbivores. it takes a large, long gut to extract nutrition form plant foods. this is why the belly of the leaf-eating gorilla is so huge, it’s packed with many extra feet of gut. animal foods break down fast and are easy to digest and people eat raw meat all over the world and it’s perfectly safe for them.

        • John

          Agreed and our digestive systems are super long as well

        • Real World Vegan

          no dude, they arent. gut length is compared to torso length for a proper ratio. obligate carnivores have a gut length of 2-3 times their torso length. herbivores like cows and horses have a gut length of about 20 times. human beings have a gut length of 8-9 times. we fall right in the middle, which supports the idea that human beings are natural omnivores.

    • Maadlen

      Your diet is good, but raw food diet has proved to be much more efficient in curing cancer.

      • Dave Asprey

        While The Bulletproof Diet is not an anti cancer diet, if you eat it raw, it will serve that purpose. Raw meat or egg is better for you than raw vegetables.

        • BuddhaBandit

          Raw chicken or pork will give you salmonella or trichinosis respectively, both of which can be fatal. I’m assuming you’re making a broad brush statement much as you do repeatedly in your article, without citing sources, providing footnotes, or backing up your claims with links, etc. Maybe you meant to say fish is better eaten raw. Nonetheless, you said something general enough to be stupidly and obviously dangerous. And by the way, get your facts right about soy. It’s not soy that’s bad, it’s soy isolates. Consult the google machine. You might learn something Mr. Genius.

        • Dave Asprey

          Lol – trichinosis in commercial pork that’s inspected? Hardly. Salmonella dies when you dip it in iodine, and chickens raised properly in pastures have a much lower risk of it. I know. “The google machine” told me. It must be true.
          Edamame has been linked with estrogen problems in kids and males. ALL soy protein is bad, whether or not it’s isolated or still in those nasty tasting little toxic beans.

        • Judy

          My family consume raw meat, eggs, and fish on a regular basis. None of us are sick, or have even felt any type of discomfort. Get your facts straight. Only conventional meat (which EVERYONE bases their facts on), are full of bacteria. High quality meats like grass-fed beef have pretty much no risk of making you sick.

    • ScienceGal

      Dear Dr Ornish, I like that your diet ideas promote an increase in vegetable consumption and decrease in processed sugars. This alone can account for much of your success in improving some people’s health. But much of your “success data” is confounded by your subjects’ concurrent use of statins, and some interesting selective data culling. As a medical and science writer, you lost me when I found out that you promote soy— soy burgers and other processed fake foods and bad oils such as canola (at best, it is GMO, at worst it’s a rancid rapeseed oil hoax). I am concerned that President Clinton looks so unhealthy now that he, by the accounts I have read, is strictly vegetarian on your diet. Human dental structure etc.makes a pretty good case that man was intended to be omnivorous. I invite you to please address the phenomenon of the mediterranean diet—i.e. heart disease among those traditionally following this diet is extraordinarily low, and this diet not only includes meat, but red meat, e.g. lamb, and also olive oil. No fake foods like soy btw. When you appeared in an interview with Sanjay Gupta, you used several very obscure cultures as examples of groups with low heart disease rates that follow your type of diet. Glaringly you left out the mediterraneans—a far more salient group to study! This looks to me like selective data culling. I’d sure appreciate your take on this, because Sanjay may be a more famous journalist than I am, but I would have challenged you on these points had I done that interview.

      • TK

        I saw Bill Clinton in 10/12 and thought he looked so great and healthy that it motivated me to change from a vegetarian diet to a vegan one. I have never felt better. As far as humans being omnivores, please read 80/10/10 by Dr. Douglas Graham.

      • Lisa Flood

        Soy is not a fake food. Did you know it is a seed and grows in the ground that when harvested produces organic tofu, oraganic cold pressed soy oil, and organic soy milk. It’s only a fake food when it is a GMO (genetically modified). Organic Canola oil when cold pressed is not fake either. Where do people get these crazy ideas? Organic foods and GMO foods are two different categories, they are not the same.

        • lola0600 .

          Soy beans is not a fake food, but tofu do not grow out of the ground, it is also a processed food. Please go to Wikipedia to find out how tofu is made. First they cook the soybeans to make soy milk, then they add a coagulant to curdle the soy milk. The curdled soy milk is the tofu. It is not a natural product. But soybeans are. I was a vegan/vegetarian for almost a year and did not the wide use of fake meats or fake soy products that mimic meat. I really feel like if you do not want to eat meat then do not eat it. I do not like any fake store bought veggie burgers they are disgusting. I prefered to eat portabella mushrooms like a burger instead. I really think that eating whole foods, not processed is the best way to go. My grandfather is 100 years old and ate meat his whole life. He was not a junk eater but ate the diet he grew up on in the south. My mother is 73 years old and has been a meat eater all her life as well. She has never had a big appetite and eats small portions of food. She does not eat pork because she says it gives her a headache, and she does not eat read meat because she says it is not healthy. She does eat chicken, but only chicken breast, but just because that is her preference. And she eats fish mainly salmon and sometimes shrimp. She is healthier than I am at 47 years old. I also wanted to say she does not eat a lot of meat and never has. Growing up with a very large family of ten, we ate a lot of beans. My mother would put a pot of beans (navy or pinto or blackeye peas) on the stove and we would have cornbread and a salad. The beans did not have meat added, just salt and pepper. She also used shortening in making the cornbread as well as eggs and milk. For snacks we would eat fruit or leftovers from our meal the day before. And we would sometimes eat chips and candy for a snack when we received our weekly allowance. 99% of our meals were eaten at home. Once in a while we would get Wendy`s to get a frosty or something like that. I mean we barely ate out, that did not happened until we were grown and on our own. If people could go back to the way it used to be when families at most of their dinners at home and the food being home cooked, I think we would be a much healthier nation whether we decide to eat meat or not.

    • Joelle Hru

      Your low fat diet has no reason to exist in light of the most recent medical studies.

      • John

        That is not true at all… http://www.nutritionfacts.org

        • Paleo Huntress

          This is from McGill University’s Office for Science & Society-

          “Dr. Greger has swallowed the vegan philosophy hook, line and sinker”

          “He promotes veganism with religious fervour”

          “You will never see Dr. Greger refer to a study that shows anything positive about meat”

          “[T]here is some zealotry here.”

          NutritonFacts isn’t an unbiased source by any stretch of the imagination. You’ll find comments at the cite that include a dozen or more citations contrary to his claims and many asking Dr. Greger to address them. He simply ignores them, even though he claims to try and answer all questions.

          Just go to the data directly, and don’t expect Greger to point you to anything that supports the health of high animal-fat diets, even though that data is available in quantity.

    • Q & Q Estate Jewelry LLC

      Hey, Dr.Ornish, my cousin in New York followed your diet for over 15 years, swore by it. Guess what? He had to have heart surgery… AT 47! Stop poisoning people with your poorly researched and biased diet, we’re in 2012- we have new studies on nutrition, try reading them.

      • Dave Asprey

        I have no doubt that dr. ornish believes he is helping people. He’s not an idiot by a longshot. The core issue is that his original research on nutrition was coupled with mindfulness training. Mindfulness training can help you overcome the poor quality ornish diet, but ornish downplayed or failed to mention the mindfulness component when he went off into low-fat religion land. The long-term effects of that diet are disastrous. The short-term effects, like veganism, may even be good for you ( although that’s not the case with grain).

        • Yan b

          I totally agree, high starch diets was imposed in Indiana and blessing the food and appreciating that they at least had something to eat was found to aleviate the fact that the food was imbalanced nutritionally (someting along those line)

        • http://www.facebook.com/VeganSteffy Steffy Sigar

          The problem is when you eat so much cooked foods with fruits then your body is clogged up. Raw veganism is the way. I hope you live in the jungle or mountains.

        • Lo

          Who said everything has to be cooked? Meat starts out raw, so you can eat it that way.

        • John

          Yes listen to Dr. Dean Ornish…… Or wait for it Dave Asprey… sorry dave, going with ornish

      • John

        This proves nothing.

    • guest

      dear dr ornish i hate u ihate u I HATE U U JUST WANNA KILL PEOPLE AND U HAVE GONE TOO FAR U EVEN SAY CANOLA OIL IS HEALTHIER THAN OLIVE OIL WHICH IS THE SAME AS SAYING A REFINED OXIDISED CARCIOGENIC POISON IS HEALTHIER THAN OLIVE OIL COZ CANOLA OIL IS A TOXIN U I MEANT U SHOULD LEARN THAT MOST OF OUR BODY FAT IS SATURATED WTF ARE U THINKING NOW DO YA RESEARCH BEFORE YA GO ATTACKIN THE ATKINS DIET

    • Meagan Truitt

      Kind of like how decapitation had a 100 percent rate of cure for headaches.

    • Never Trust a Doctor

      You and other vegan-obsessed doctors like Dr. McDougall are making a lot of people sick. Look at the before and after pictures of the “Star McDougallers” – they all looked healthier and younger in their “before” shots even if they were morbidly obese. In the “after” photos they all look old and flabby – just skin hanging (literally) off bones. They don’t look healthy, nobody’s in shape. I don’t see any muscle tone on any of them. In fact, the vast majority of vegans look pale and sickly. And they’re weird.

    • TTaub

      Thank you, Dr. Cornish. I am recovering from severe hypertension (average reading: 210/115) and have almost completely reversed it by following a vegan, highly nutritive diet (with supplements.) Along with my disappearing hypertension, I have lost 30 pounds, my slightly underactive thyroid sped up, my skin has cleared up, my arthritis is fading, my energy levels are up, old scars are fading… too many changes to name in a short paragraph.

      I followed a Paleo-like diet prior to going vegan: high “good” fats, lots of grassfed meats, organic vegetables, but my blood pressure would not stop climbing.

      I don’t know why some people seem to thrive on high intakes of meat. I did not. I have no citations, no proof, and no desire to enter into the very heated aspect of this debate.

      I do want to thank you and other doctors like you, like Dr. Joel Fuhrman, who are leading the way in helping those of us with heart disease. Thank you.

      • TTaub

        Sorry, I typed “Cornish” instead of “Ornish.” No pun intended, of course.

  • Masterjrn

    So much misinformation here that has already been called out, but I couldn’t overlook this: “The Ornish Diet recommends frankenfoods like tofurkey and frozen processed meals, which are full of Roundup-soaked, genetically modified soybeans and partially hydrogenated oils.”

    ^All it takes is a quick search on the lid to glean out an ingredients list for tofurkey, which is NON-GMO! Go to an American grocery store and try to find commercially available tofu that isn’t organic and non genetically-modified. It is so ridiculous, that in an age where we are denied truth-in-labeling of what DOES have GMO, you are trying to slander the products that explicitly don’t. Do you think your readers are so stupid as to not be able to look up basic info or read product packaging?

    Your writing comes off as extremely biased, poorly researched, and overconfident. I hope you can find cause to open your mind and stop being part of the problem.

    • Masterjrn

      lid=web, typo retardo

    • ScienceGal

      Yes, Ornish IS recommending GMO in some ways. Canola oil is genetically modified rapeseed oil.

  • Mich

    there is no cure for pancreatic cancer no matter what you do. you can only buy time. No diet would have saved him.

    • Dave Asprey

      Mich, the hopeless thing doesn’t play well here. My work at svhi.com over a decade has introduced me to nearly a dozen cancer treatments that work but are not known by most doctors. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmqTKh-CP88 is an example from the head of the Karolinska Institute, where my wife studied medicine.

    • Rob

      Pardon me BUT…

      “The big confusion in the media is that Jobs had pancreatic cancer. Though his tumor might have originated in his pancreas, we’re not speaking of the dreaded pancreatic adenocarcinoma that has such a horrible prognosis and makes up for 95% of pancreatic tumors.

      Jobs is cited to have said himself that he had an islet-cell tumor, which is a colloquially used, less accurate name for the other 5% of pancreatic tumors, so-called neuroendocrine tumors”

      Neuroendocrine tumors are relatively mild forms of cancer… & …caught in time can be treated just by surgically removing the tumor.

      This is a relatively low-risk treatment that — especially compared to chemo and radiation — has negligible disadvantages. In many cases, a simple enucleation (just cutting out the tumor with a safe margin around it) is enough and leaves no residual side-effects.”

      You can read the whole story here:

      http://www.quora.com/Steve-Jobs/Why-did-Steve-Jobs-choose-not-to-effectively-treat-his-cancer

  • Vesta0424

    Do you live at 14,000 feet? Tibetans must eat meat because it is almost impossible to grow vegetables and get other nutrients at that elevation. The Dalai Lama is vegetarian. Your argument is self-serving — you must like the taste, as there are many plant based products that will give you the fat you need. A meat-based diet in the US is based on the endless suffering of industrially raised livestock, which you may peruse in depth the next time you sit down to meditate.

    • Dave Asprey

      Vesta, I do not live at 14,000 feet, but my pulseox is routinely 2 points low, which has a similar effect. Been working on hacking that for years.

      Yes I like the taste of meat. Bacon isn’t a gateway meat; cucumbers are gateway vegetables.

      The idea that meat in the US means endless suffering for industrially raised livestock is absurd. I only eat 100% grass fed, humanely raised meat. Most of it is from within 10 miles of my house, from people I know. Some comes from safe, humane online sources.

      Incidentally, if I stick to only 2lbs of beef per day, I kill 0.7 animals in the entire supply chain. A bowl of “soy nuts and wheat twigs” contributes to the deaths of thousands of animals as they are crushed under the wheels of the industrial, heartless tractor-driven combine. Cute bunnies flee in terror as whirring blades dismantle their fields. Turtles are flattened. Snakes are severed. Mice are shredded. And then the topsoil itself is trashed by the abuse of agriculture. Meditate on the number of living beings you kill when you choose grape-nuts. Then look at what research shows about butter vs vegetable fats for cognitive function. Your meditation itself is poorer without adequate fats.

      I’m sorry. I’d live on rocks and sunshine if I could manage. But until then, the Bulletproof Diet is more humane, and more environmentally friendly, than any topsoil-destroying, field-animal-killing “vegan” diet.

    • Bawana56

      The Dalai Lama is not a vegetarian. He does occasionally eat chicken. He believes it should be dead for, (I think) two days or else it is the same as killing it twice.

    • Auntyaoif

      The Dalai Lama is not a vegetarian actually. I have read his book and in it he states that he tried vegetarianism for a time but had to go back on meat as his health deteriorated.

      • Dave Asprey

        Auntyaoif, here’s a virtual high-five. Thanks for saving me the time of replying to the tired, disproven argument that eating meat means eating suffering animals. I don’t do that!

      • lola

        he said that he ended up eating too much cheese and ended up with gallstones as a result. I cannot find the source but it was in a youtube video documentary/interview straight from the horses mouth

  • Geovesta02

    When you “hacked your own brain” you must have been quite proud to raise your IQ to 100. Congratulations!!

    • Dave Asprey

      Geovesta02, oh no, I’m still working on 100. But I use base 40 for that. :)

  • Mays

    I must be a freak of nature. I have been a vegan for 40 years. I am almost 70. I am as healthy as a 20 year old, and the last time I got sick was 20 years ago, and that was for a sinus infection. I am the only woman in my family who has lived past 65. They all died of cancer, and the last 5 years of their lives were miserable. Jobs may have died at 49 if he had been a meat eater. He may have lived until 80 had he not experimented with drugs for so many years, and do ‘t forget the alcohol. The damage may have been done way before he gave up meat. Stress could have been a factor, environmental poisons he may have come in contact with…no one knows. But to say a vegetarian diet killed him make you sound like you work for the meat industry.

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

      So because you haven’t suffered any noticeable health consequences, that means it doesn’t cause them for anyone else?

      • Durgareiki

        There is no EVIDENCE to refute. As stated previously, Dr. Ornish and other scientists like him, have RESEARCHED heart disease, and other Westernized diseases longer than you’ve been on the planet! Please … stick to the things you know, like running and swimming. Let the professionals do their work without stating falsehoods that may put many humans at risk for an early demise!

        Seeking a peer reviewed article on the web is like looking for a notable physician in the Bowery, darlin’. Hate to disappoint. Obviously, either you are not educated enough to know that anyone can ‘make up’ crap on the web and post it as fact, or perhaps you’re just too young to realize that not everything you read on the net is fact.
        A peer reviewed article is found in a University’s database, as are all of Dr. Ornish’ articles. Please, as I said before, stick to what you know: Running, swimming, and bike riding. Let the PROFESSIONALS do their work. This blog is seriously flawed, and you are spreading erroneous fiction to your readers. God help them!

        • Karen

          Evidence? Ornish is not looking particularly healthy these days. And Ornish’s “research” had way too many confounding variables: low fat? quitting smoking? stress reduction?

        • John

          Ornish looks healthy to me. You know who doesn’t look healthy? Atkins

        • Real World Vegan

          slipping on ice, bashing ones head and dying from a brain injury tends to be bad for the complexion.

          heres another low-carber who is approximately the same age as ornish. still think ornish looks ‘healthy’? im vegan and i dont even think he looks healthy.

        • Tim

          he looks healthy to me! Just becuase someone is ugly or doesn;t work out like crazy doesn’t mean they aren’t unhealthy.. use your brain

        • Real World Vegan

          ok, fair snuff. what about him looks healthy to you? the pasty complexion? the skinny legs? the barrel belly? the glassy eyes? the pimply skin? the dry hair? the circles under his eyes? I don’t care whether hes “ugly” or not, in that he has a big nose and a chubby face, he cant change that. im talking about the beauty we see when we interpret good health, and this guy is failing at every turn.

        • ari_free

          wow now that’s what I call a randomized double blind controlled study. /sarc

        • Paleo Huntress

          Wow, now that’s what I call a peanut butter smear or a ski trail.

          I love the “Let’s Post Irrelevant Comments On The Internet” game! ~claps excitedly~ Do another one!

        • Al

          Mark Sisson is on TRT.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Let me guess, your resource for that bit of rubbish is Harley Johnstone? lol

          Jealously looks bad on everyone.

        • Al

          You said The Starch Solution type diet didn’t work out for you…
          Maybe something like low carb vegan or raw vegan might work better…

        • Paleo Huntress

          Thank you for your suggestion, Al… they didn’t.

      • drnono

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fauja_Singh
        Seems this fella rather contradicts your hatred of vegeterian based diets. 100 yrs old and running marathons!

    • Silver

      I don’t entirely agree but I love your way of thinking. There are always other factors to be taken in consideration. Maybe Blood type is a factor? Vegetarianism is not for everyone, but obviously it’s working for you.

      • FairLady

        yes, I believe that blood type is definitely a factor. Many who are type O hunter gatherers cannot attain good health on a vegetarian diet. I’m a type O and have been on the BTD for over 15 years now, have never needed any medical treatment or prescriptions. I’ve seen other type O try to lead a vegetarian life and never been able to beat disease.

        • John

          Blood type diets have been proven bogus long ago…

          Vegetarianism is for everybody because we are all vegetarians via evolution. Most of our time on the planet we were monkeys who were largely all vegetarian.

      • John

        Vegetarianism is for everybody because we are all vegetarians via evolution. Most of our time on the planet we were monkeys who were largely all vegetarian.

        • Real World Vegan

          we were never monkeys. we didn’t evolve from monkeys. monkeys and humans evolved from a common ancestor and have moved along different evolutionary paths. the diet of a monkey isnt relevant in determining our diet. there are birds of the same species [darwins finches] where some are fully vegetarian and others are almost entirely carnivorous and they are more closely related by dna than we are to monkeys.

        • Sam

          Um… what are you smoking? Yes we evolved from old world monkeys. The Homo genus diverged from the Australopithecines about 2 million years ago in Africa.

        • Real World Vegan

          Australopithecines was not a monkey… sorry.

        • Give Me a Break

          You may have evolved from a monkey but God made me and Jesus ate meat. So I’m going to eat everything God provided as food on this planet: meat, vegetables, nuts, fruits… all of it in moderation. And btw evolution is still just a theory. There is zero evidence that we evolved from monkeys or anything else. But if you read and understand the Bible, you will find proof of its accuracy all around you.

          You want to eat twigs and leaves, knock yourself out! But do not base your choice on a theory that anyone with a properly-fueled brain can see is wrong.

        • [email protected]

          Typically misinformed, both about evolution and the scientific definition of theory. A theory is a widely-accepted proposition based on the preponderance of the evidence. In other words, the theory of evolution has NOT BEEN DISPROVEN, but there is plenty of evidence supporting its veracity. As for the bible being accurate — about what? Empirical science is not the purview of religion. The way we raise food is a far cry from Jesus’ time anyway. So after you’re done pinning tassels to your clothing and shaking the dust from your Nikes, at the end of the day, it’s science that should inform your eating, which I assure you, will leave you every bit as confused as the contradictory book of truth you call the bible.

        • Jacob

          Wow, I was wondering when someone would go down this rabbit trail. How do you know the bible is contradictory?

        • [email protected]

          Read it. Duh.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Seriously? In one chapter it reads, 2+2=4, and in another it reads, 2+2=5.

          Contradictory.

    • Yan b

      My great grandfather lived to be 93 and he smoked and ate fatty red meat. He must also be a freak of nature

      • John

        So nowadays people are living longer but sicker lives. When you talk about being a meat eater who is 93 that is just a much healthier age and probably because you ate MUCH LESS meat when you were younger than today’s young person. Also the same goes for people before you. Today people are eating more meat than ever, modern medicine is keeping people alive longer but as people age they are sicker in the last years than previous generations. This is all publicly available info

        • Real World Vegan

          copypasta… cool

      • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

        If you say so! lol Wild meat or farm-raised meat? You did not say. :)

    • Donald Ciesielski

      My mother is 98 (99 in 2 Months) and we always had trouble keeping her away from her love for liverwurst and beer. Go

      • Rosemary Guy

        Liverwurst isn’t made the same as when your mother was young and is now quite unhealthy. there are vegetarian options for liverwurst since old habits can be hard to change and food can be such a part of our family and memories. I like the growing body of evidence that a plant based diet is better for our health as it looks after the planet and the other animals in it. Go well

        • Real World Vegan

          what makes todays liverwurst unhealthy in your opinion?

          these are the ingredients from my mils recipe, can you tell me which ones are ‘quite unhealthy’?

          1 lb fresh pork liver, cubed
          3/4 lb lean pork butt, cubed
          1/4 lb pork fat, cubed
          1 large white onion, finely diced
          1 teaspoon freshly fine ground white pepper
          1-1/2 teaspoons salt, or to taste
          2 teaspoons paprika
          1 teaspoon sugar
          1/2 teaspoon marjoram
          1/2 teaspoon finely ground coriander
          1/4 teaspoon mace
          1/4 teaspoon allspice
          1/4 teaspoon ground cardamom

        • Rosemary Guy

          the preservatives which are usually in liverwurst are what makes these processed meats less healthy. meat is carcinogenic and then the poor animals are pumped full of drugs and kept in insanitary conditions http://nutritionfacts.org/2013/04/25/bugs-drugs-in-pork-yersinia-and-ractopamine/

        • Real World Vegan

          greger is not a researcher and he hasn’t published any research on anything but animal agriculture. he is not an authority, he is a vegan guru with extreme bias.

          please provide the citation to a randomized controlled trial demonstrating that meat is carcinogenic. not isolated parts of meat, but meat itself, in the context of a whole food diet.

          as for ‘preservatives’, we can all agree that processed food is unhealthy. in the context of fresh whole food though, liverwurst is quite healthy.

        • eat2evolve

          RCT is a tall order, but here’s a real study for you: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23167408

        • Paleo Huntress

          This is not a study as in a actual trial, it’s a cohort. The problem with cohorts is that there is a lot to sift through from each and every study while you’re doing your own analysis. Anyway, let’s look at the conclusion-

          “The Western dietary pattern which mainly consists of red and processed meat and refined grains is associated with an elevated risk of development of CRC.

          The consumption of animal food has gone down by 75lbs per person, per year since 1950, and the consumption of grains has gone UP over 40lbs, along with sugar and vegetable oil (well, and fruits and veggies, but let’s not complicate the issue). More than 3/4 of the calories in the SAD come from plants.
          The cohort couldn’t differentiate between the damage they concluded was done by red meat and the damage done by processed grains. So your claim that the red meat is responsible when there is no way to conclude that from the data, merely reveals your bias. Disease is up, grain consumption is up, vegetable oil consumption is up, sugar consumption is up, fruit and veggie consumption is up, meat consumption is down.
          The only way to honestly conclude that the disease increase of the last couple of decades is due to meat consumption is to live in Backwards Land.

        • Jerilyn Bridges

          Who wrote that lie! Meat consumption has risen and continues to rise since the 1930’s : prestty bad since that was the depression!

        • Paleo Huntress

          LMAO, reactive much?! Who installed that button in you?

          Please note that animal food includes fresh meat, cured meat, dairy AND eggs. And the source for that is the USDA’s Profiling Food Consumption Report of 2010. Also note that even though total calories is up, the percentage of calories from meat (and saturated fat) itself is down. In other words, the bulk of the increase in calories in the SAD comes from plant-sources.

        • lele23

          That is not entirely correct. Cheese consumption is way up, and it’s high in calories and fat. Last I checked, most cheese is animal-based.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Whether cheese consumption is up or not is moot, TOTAL dairy is down. You know what else is high in calories? Refined grains, sugar and vegetable oil. <–all plant foods.

        • lele23

          It’s not moot at all if you’re talking about calories, and you were. Fat has nine calories per gram and carbohydrates and proteins have four.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Yes, we are talking about calories. Cheese consumption is up, and total calories from all dairy is down. Still.

          Total dairy is DOWN.

        • Guest

          Just so you know, Paleo Huntress and Real World Vegan are the same person. She has several IDs. Read the comments here… she was busted for this exact same thing. http://nutritionfacts.org/video/changing-our-taste-buds/

        • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

          You are spot on R.W.V! I appreciate good info from Dr. Greger but I can see that he is also a vegan guru with extreme bias. He once said that coconut oil is not nutritious cos it is “zero calorie”. :)

        • Mike

          When did Greger EVER say that coconut oil is zero calories?

          He says that coconut oil is EMPTY calories, and it’s hard to argue with him on that. Calorie for calorie oils are among the lowest in nutrients.

        • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

          Ooops, I admit I made a mistake – thank you for pointing that out. But I do disagree with him that cold-treated coconut oil is empty-calories, it’s very anti-microbial at the very least (why people use it for oil-pulling), bt I don’t ingest a lot of coconut oil every day.

        • Rosemary Guy

          greger has references to the research that he reviews underneath his videos/ Since cmapbell is not the only researcher to show the effects of animals proteins on health, his research is supported by a growing body of evidence. Neither of these doctors started as vegans but were convinced by the research

        • Paleo Huntress

          It’s not a growing body, it’s a shrinking body. The growing body of evidence is the one showing that saturated fat and animal food have been unfairly demonized and that they are quite healthy after all.

        • Jerilyn Bridges

          It is a growing body! Minority doctors are weighing in! Just because they are being ignored by your bunch does not mean we are not listening!

        • Rosemary Guy
        • Richard

          Haha, follow your Paleo diet if you wish but must you try to misinform others on your way to sickness and disease?

        • Paul Spring

          Given the traditionally low vegan population it has been difficult to conduct statistically significant long-term studies. As the popularity of WFPB diets continues to increase, this is changing. In addition, one of the detrimental aspects of what were considered “vegan” diets, is B12 deficiency – this biased past studies against a vegan diet. Given the surge in information available today on this, B12 deficiency will be less of a confounding variable. So here is a study showing the reduced cancer hazard ratio for vegans and vegetarians vs meat eaters:

          http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/22/2/286

          Vegetarian Diets and the Incidence of Cancer in a Low-risk Population

          Yessenia Tantamango-Bartley1,

          Karen Jaceldo-Siegl1,2,

          Jing Fan1, and

          Gary Fraser1

        • chloeholly

          Greger reads research and gives lectures on what he has studied. By your logic, doctors should pack their bags and go home if they didn’t do the research they base their practices on. You might like to think that he is a vegan guru with extreme bias, but according to him, he goes where the research takes him. Sorry, but it’s not that he has an extreme bias, rather that independent research from around the world points toward a vegan/near vegan diet, and away from your animal-based diet.

        • Sara

          What makes Greger any more qualified to speak on what he has read than you are or I am? We don’t need Greger’s bias clouding our judgement, we are all capable of reading the research ourselves.

          Greger’s expertise lies in animal agriculture, not in human nutrition. His position on animal food is most likely driven by his observations of the deplorable treatment of factory-farmed animals. He has published dozens of peer-reviewed articles on that agriculture, but not a single paper on human nutrition.

          If I have a general medical problem, I’m going to see my general practitioner. And they may refer me to an expert like a gynecologist or an ophthalmologist or an ENT or a proctologist, etc… but only an idiot would seek out an ophthalmologist for a gynecological problem. Medical doctors are not nutrition experts, this is why they refer their patients to dietitians, who are.

          We need to stop treating doctors like gods, they’re just people with the same personal, emotional and financial biases and influences that the rest of us are subject to.

          “According to him”?! That’s all it takes for you to buy his message hook, line and sinker? That he **claims** that he “goes where the research takes him”? Even Greger’s own peers accuse him of cherry-picking. When taken as a whole, there is no trend in the body of research that supports veganism. You would know that if you were reading all of that data that he is withholding from you.

        • chloeholly

          I read and listen to a lot more than just Greger! And there are many more professionals besides him who say much the same as he does, most of whom come from a human health perspective. But hey, if you know so much more than he does and have better credentials than he does, you should go for it. Start your own website and lecture series, or even just links to all of your superior sources of information.

        • Sara

          You’ve jumped from one ‘appeal to authority’ fallacy to another. I don’t need to blog about it, I don’t need credentials, and neither do you or anyone else. I’m not interested in bilking people out of their cash either. If it was a matter of how many agree with him, then you definitely shouldn’t waste your time because his position is the minority in the nutrition field.

          Read the data yourself. Skip the blogs and the articles written by people with something to sell you and educate yourself with data.

        • chloeholly

          You don’t think anyone needs credentials because you base your decisions on what you “like” not on science. Appeal to authority is not a fallacy if the authority is based on reputable, published, peer-reviewed scientific evidence, which the websites and professionals I follow are all based on. They are not fronts for the meat and dairy industries, which it sounds like your sources are. Dannon, etc. can pump out hundreds of studies, maybe even more than legit researchers, although I doubt it. But even if they do, quantity is not quality, sorry for you.

          You might want to look up the straw man fallacy, and take a closer look at your own appeals to authority and appeals to popularity before you try to argue with anyone else.

        • Paleo Huntress

          The “authority” being referred to has nothing to do with knowledge or expertise, but rather to title and education. That’s why it’s a logical fallacy, because it is only an appearance of authority with no actual authority to back up the claim of expertise. Greger’s authority is based on only HALF of the ‘reputable, published, peer-reviewed scientific evidence’, which makes him either willfully ignorant or willfully deceptive.

          The fronts for his sources have even more financial incentive than meat and dairy, and Big Food, Big Grain, Big Sugar, Big Soy and Big Edible Oil are the wealthiest and most powerful food lobbies, with grains, sugars and vegetable oil accounting for the top three ingredients found in processed food. So if any group is influencing the data in any direction, it’s more likely to be them- but hey, we know lobbies have influence. That’s why we need to read the study funding. Have you ever looked at the funding for the studies Greger cites? I subscribe to his videos, I check every one. You may wish to do that too before suggesting that his sources are free of bias again.

          I agree with you, quantity is NOT quality. Greger’s sources are mostly observational and they compare data sets that don’t represent the conclusions he claims that they do. (Like citing data comparing beans to white bread and macaroni & cheese and calling them ‘healthy’ because they provided for better morning glucose. What wouldn’t provide for better morning glucose over white bread and macaroni and cheese?)

          You have the entire PubMed library at your fingertips. Instead of repeatedly defending Greger’s honor, why not just share a citation or two? Don’t you have any stashed away? Providing evidence is the correct way to make an argument whereas dismissing evidence in favor of a claim made by someone you believe to be an “authority” is the very epitome of appealing to authority- which is one of the most used logical fallacies. And yours is a textbook case, chloeholly.

          If you’re doing your due diligence when you’re provided with Greger’s claims, you should be reading the supporting data as well. So you should be familiar with the current science and able to provide real evidence and speak to it instead of pointing to him to do it for you.

          Don’t be sorry for the people who fact-check, they’re not the ones being duped.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Greger’s entire congregation is part of the Appeal to Authority church.

        • chloeholly

          If you can’t tolerate scientific evidence you try to dismiss it with contenptuous insults, congregation, church, fallacies, instead of actually providing any real evidence of your own.

        • Paleo Huntress

          You haven’t provided any evidence, scientific or otherwise, I have.

          Take a minute and browse through the comments here over the last year and see what you find and then please at least attempt to understand what constitutes evidence.

          And by the way, the church reference is not a fallacy, but an analogy. If you don’t know what these terms mean, you shouldn’t be using them.

          Have you ever looked at Greger’s donations page? Do you know how much he charges to speak? He’s a money-making machine for the Humane Society.

        • chloeholly

          Where did I say your church insult was a “fallacy”? Obviously, I said church comma fallacies, as in a list of problems, not church fallacies. I think I have discovered your real problem, an inability to read for comprension, combined with over-confidence in abilities. To top it off, you’re correcting me and you don’t even know what an analogy is, because your vacuous insults were metaphors, not analogies. Why I bother I don’t know.

          Speaking takes time out of his life. He shouldn’t charge for it? Why does anyone pay him, if he’s worthless?

          Speaking of compensation, you better believe the claptrap (insult) you read is funded by meat, dairy, egg or pharmaceutical interests. Hope all those commas didn’t confuse you too much. That’s another example of a “list”. The latest bogus research claiming saturated fat is good for you originated in a world level conference of dairy interests several years ago where they decided they needed to fund manipulated research because the science linking saturated fat with dementia, heart disease, MS, etc. whoa another list, can you understand it? was threatening their industry.

        • Paleo Huntress

          analogy [uh-nal-uh-jee]
          noun, plural analogies.

          1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based

          As for MS, I invite you to explore Dr. Terry Wahls’ MS paleo protocol, the one that REVERSED the progression of her MS- full of meat and fat and other disease-causing foods. ~shudders~

          You’ll find it enlightening… well, if anything at all enlightens you.

          http://terrywahls.com/about/about-terry-wahls/

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc

          You might also find vegan guru Dr. Gabriel Cousens’ work interesting. He is curing diabetes with high fat diets- up to 50% fat and much of that is saturated. No way! The issues with Vegan Diets

          Regarding the rest, until you include a citation to a peer-reviewed trial or other data, your comment are just more of the same empty bluster.

        • chloeholly

          My goodness, you can’t even understand the definition when it’s right in front of you. And you also don’t understand the concept of studying published research and reporting on it in a way that a lay audience can understand it. Since you can’t grasp pretty simple concepts such as those, you should probably focus your energies on trying to understand and less on trying to support your baseless preconceived ideas.

        • chloeholly

          huh? selling stuff? What are you talking about?

        • lele23

          He is a medical doctor (for humans), not a veterinarian, and he’s incredibly knowledgeable. Human nutrition research is his specialty.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Except that it isn’t. Greger has published dozens of papers on his specialty, animal agriculture. He hasn’t published a SINGLE paper on human nutrition.

          Medical doctors are NOT nutrition experts. They get little to no nutrition education in medical school.

          “[O]nly 26 (25%) required a dedicated nutrition course; in 2004, 32 (30%) of 106 schools did. Overall, medical students received 19.6 contact hours of nutrition instruction during their medical school careers (range: 0–70 hours); the average in 2004 was 22.3 hours. Only 28 (27%) of the 105 schools met the minimum 25 required hours set by the National Academy of Sciences; in 2004, 40 (38%) of 104 schools did so.

          Conclusions: The amount of nutrition education that medical students receive continues to be inadequate.

          Academic Medicine:
          September 2010 – Volume 85 – Issue 9 – pp 1537-1542

        • Richard

          It is Dr Greger and I would bet big money he knows more about how to read a research report than you do Fake World Vegan…

        • Roger Lowrey

          Well said. Sadly they have there fingers in there ears. Good post

        • QuentonQuale

          Mmmmmmm. that recipe looks delicious.

        • Rosemary Guy

          the fat and the pork and their association with cancer and heart disease

        • Marcel Jaques

          The reality is that vegan is extremist, not based in science, detrimental to the environment, and ignores the sacred lives of cows and chickens which otherwise would barely exist. 😉 On the other hand, a diet high in animal fat and eggs, fresh vegetables, some healthy carbs, small fruits like berries, and fish/fish oil supplements is absolutely balanced, and a smart extension of our “natural” historical diet.

        • chloeholly

          easy, pork liver, pork butt, pork fat.

        • Sara

          Pork liver, pork butt and pork fat are unhealthy in the same way that kale, tomatoes and bell peppers are.

        • chloeholly

          You just make things up. You just say anything willy-nilly with no logic or science. It’s quite bizarre.

        • Paleo Huntress

          It makes perfect sense really, pork and pork fat are healthy, like kale, tomatoes and peppers are healthy. Well, they contain SOME nutrition anyway, but they’re not nearly as nutrient dense as the pork.

          Where is your science again, chloeholly?

        • Russell Wright

          Actually, the missing element is the fats fed to the animal that became liverwurst. Grass fed should be no problem.

        • http://www.mymotorrad.com/ james lagnese

          She’s still alive, so she must be doing something right, whether the liverwurst is unhealthy or not.

      • King Kong

        You can get away with eating a little meat and some beer if the bulk of your diet is healthy. We shouldn’t be strict and extreme with our diets. Or anything else for that matter.

    • Deborahl Morano

      I am an 87 years old and a very active member of my circles.I am a Meat eater and a youngest woman in my family now. All of my 30 family members with my father still being alive at age 103 were consuming a Mediterranean style diet with meat and fish all our lives daily. I am more energetic and healthy than half of few 70 yrs old who try stay vegetarians out of scare to die early like their other family members. They are still not reached an 80’s age bar. Few still have numerous age-related illnesses. I think that NOTHING is proven 100% on all that dieting thing . People still die and get sick regardless of their vegan vs meat eater habit or not. I also believe into bad family carrying genes. You life expectancy is a division point between mother/father’s age divided in half,then(-/+) 5-7 years. It is what was given from the ‘unknown’ skies of Destiny. We live our life-spam as being per-programmed,regardless what we eat.(Historic figures like, Exp) Mr. Churchill.Who was 96 yrs old a meat eat eater,drinker,cigar smoke and didn’t exercise, btw, Healthy till his last minute like God. So,go and prove who’s right,who’s wrong.

      • John

        So nowadays people are living longer but sicker lives. When you talk about being a meat eater who is 87 that is just a much healthier age and probably because you ate MUCH LESS meat when you were younger than today’s young person. Also the same goes for people before you. Today people are eating more meat than every, modern medicine is keeping people alive longer but as people age they are sicker in the last years than previous generations. This is all publicly available info…

        • Real World Vegan

          the okinawans are eating more meat than ever and they have more centenarians than ever as well.

        • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

          The okinawans ate mostly RAW fish….in their time, they did not eat a lot of unfermented soy. In fact soy was available once or twice a year only to ancient Royals of Japan. Additionally, since their meat is mostly raw, they are eating lesser oil.

          That kind of diet cannot be compared to the world’s standard kind of seafood and beef steak meat. A world of difference.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Do you even know what a citation is?

        • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

          Yes, I do Paleo Huntress. I can refuse to give you any citation I deem fit, you know? Cos some ppl do not value info given freely.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Well of course you can refuse to offer evidence– but no evidence is no evidence. You think anyone gets their feelings hurt believing valuable evidence is being withheld? What they do is simply take that to mean you have no evidence– which is more likely the reality of the situation. Cos some people paint themselves into a corner and then feel like they have no choice but to bluster about principle.

        • Paleo Huntress

          According to the data, the Okinawans don’t now, nor did they traditionally, eat much fish. Apparently the geography of the island isn’t conducive to fishing- though they do eat lots of sea vegetables. One could certainly argue that they weren’t adding “oil” to raw meat, though their cooking-fat of choice wasn’t oil, but lard. And a cooked piece of meat usually contains LESS fat than raw, because cooking renders much of it off- so their fat intake would be higher with raw meat, not lower.

        • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

          “The Okinawans don’t now, nor did they traditionally, eat much fish.”

          How do their fishermen survive? Only by selling fish to those outside Japan?

          To what I know there is not much caloric differences between say a cooked salmon and a raw salmon.

          Would you be able to point me to the info that accurately states that “cooking renders much of it (fish oil) off”? So what is replacing fish oil?

          Do you think modern Japanese are eating like Okinawans too? Nope, they eat just like you -whatever they can find in their supermarkets.

          So just mimmicking what modern Japanese eat based on what Okinawans eat, is not going to work.

        • Paleo Huntress

          I couldn’t say how their fisherman survive, but if that concerns you, you could certainly look into it.

          This analysis of the Okinawan Centenarians’ diets found that less than 1% of total calories in their diets came from fish.

          Caloric restriction, the traditional Okinawan diet, and healthy aging: the diet of the world’s longest-lived people and its potential impact on morbidity and life span | Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2007 Oct;1114:434-55.

          Kelly, have you never cooked fatty fish?

          It’s pretty straightforward, put a fillet in a skillet and see what’s left in the pan when you’re done. It’s a couple of tablespoons of fat. (120 calories each)

          Traditional Okinawans cooked in lard. There are modern Japanese in Okinawa too, but I don’t care what modern Japanese are eating.

        • cheshirecatkiss

          Dear Real World Vegan,
          The comment “the okinawans are eating more meat than ever and they have more centenarians than ever as well” is is a ridiculous statement–an unsupportable type of survivor bias.
          If a group of Okinawans ate very little meat for, say, 80 years with the healthy habits they are known for, then consumed a red meat-based Western diet for the reminder of their life, the meat-based mortality/longevity factors will be statistically unmeasurable.
          Why? They have already survived 80 years and probabaly lived to see 100 regardless of any diet that provided basic nutrients after that 8th decade

        • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

          Dear Cheshirecatkiss, then perhaps you have no idea that the meat industry has confirmed that meat import to Japan has increased.

          Also, perhaps you forget that they also eat salmons, fish roe, scallops and sea urchins every day.

          Please go do some research before popping bullshit.

        • cheshirecatkiss

          I lived in Asia. I did not forget anything regarding Okinowans and their diet. I think that we are on the same page despite your reaction. The main problem is that your assumption to my statement is in error.

          To wit, I did not attribute the Okinowans health to meat eating. You inferred that incorrectly. I am presently on a plant-based diet and know intimately the problems of both vegenism and the Paleo diet.

          My original reply was strictly to highlight the problems of arriving at statistical conclusions that may be prone to bias.

          I believe Okinowans are healthy and enjoy longevity due to a basket of healthy habits including consumption of sea-based foods. However, there is plenty of unhealthy eating in Japan. Junk food along with processed foods are readily consumed in Japan. (Note: near ubiquitous levels of iodine-rich seaweeds in the Japanese diet is felt to be related to high levels of the impaired thyroid function known as Hashimoto’s disease, which promotes the need to understand the effects of any and all foods consumed in a given diet, e.g., TMA conversion to TMAO due to lack of plant-based bacteriodes converts carnitine to cardiovascular plaques (arteriosclerosis). The TMAO dispute between the vegens and the Paleos is white hot. Since the Japanese eat fish (high in TMA) but also vegetables, they are an interesting group to study in this regard. The Japanese also have very high gastric cancer rates–more on this later. )

          It is well-established that meat consumption has increased in Japan along with western dietary habits. My personal belief is that it is unhealthy. This belief is supported by studies confirming the rise of diseases in Japan associated with a western diet.

          In addition to eating healthy and drinking green tea, Okinowans also prosper because of exercise, group solidarity (community), sunlight, and possible less pollution rates, all of which seem to limit disease. This lifestyle over many generations produces genetic longevity, in my opinion.

          On Paleo:

          Paleolithic man and much of Neolithic man ate readily available vegetables, leafy greens, tubers, nuts, and low risk protein like marine animals (fish/mollusks) and small mammals. Larger mammal kills typically, but not exclusively, required organized hunting and was expensive from an energy standpoint.
          Nonetheless, the fact that early humans were great runners who could run down large game points to this carniverous past. (The amount of bones at dig sites shows our meat eating past too.)
          However, even as organised hunting did produce large amounts of meat, which was consumed for at least the last 250,000 years (probably much, much earlier), we were opportunistic omnivores (still are) and on average never ate more than 25% of calories from meat. Check out Richard Wrangham’s excellent book: Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human.

          However, there is nothing in our evolutionary past to suggest that we can’t eat better forms of proteins than solely animal-based ones to the exclusion of all else.

          Behavioral case in point: Most people run these days to be physically fit, not to chase antelopes.

        • http://twitter.com/kellytruths kelly

          “It is well-established that meat consumption has increased in Japan along with western dietary habits.”
          Thank you for confirming this fact.

          Paleo dieters or eaters no longer run away prey till exhaustion. And also ancient “paleo” eaters ate lots of root vegetables, legumes and mushrooms too. Ironically, if you dig deeper, Paleo eaters do not have a long life. Post-mortems show most with heart disease.

        • Paleo Huntress

          I have two words for you, Kelly.

          Bull.

          Shit.

          Would you please cite the study that looked at mortality in “paleo eaters”.

          Thanks.

        • Paleo Huntress

          “[I]f you dig deeper, Paleo eaters do not have a long life. Post-mortems show most with heart disease.”

          I have two words for this claim:

          Bull.

          Sh*t.

          Cite the deeply-dug source of the above ludicrous statement.

        • cheshirecatkiss

          Dear Kelly,

          Please dont take offense, but is English not your first language? I say this because it is very clear (by your replies) that you are not reading my replies correctly.

          There is no need to either attempt to lecture by repeating what I previously stated or pull my own quotes in order to make a (misguided) point, unless, to state again, you are misreading my comments, which it appears you are?

          We both agree on rising meat consumption in Japan along with its inherant dangers. As far as running down prey, I make it patently clear humans no longer do that in order to survive. Additionally, I stated previously that ancient humans consumed a variety of foods not just meat, a list that includes tubers, vegatables, nuts, and of course, if not stated explicitely, fungi.

          I am also deeply aware of the mortality figures for present day populations of “Paleos” and vegans and the extrapolated ones from ancient populations insofar as they can be modeled by scientists.

          Despite my polite replies, I believe that you’re not clear on the context and language usage in my replies.

          Rather than writing replies to Disqus, I strongly suggest reading Richard Wrangham’s book: “Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human.”

          I’m sure if I was back in Singapore explaining these ideas rather than in Manhattan, we would get along fine : )

          Best of luck,

          –CCK

        • cheshirecatkiss

          This is a ridiculous statement–an unsupportable type of survivor bias.
          If an Okinawan ate very little meat for, say, 80 years with the healthy habits they are known for, then consumed a meat-based Western diet for the reminder of their life, the meat-based mortality/longevity factors will be statistically unmeasurable.
          They have already survived 80 years without a Western diet and probabaly lived to see 100 regardless of any diet after that 8th decade.

        • lele23

          Your claim is incorrect. The centenarians in Okinawa profiled in the book Blue Zones eat a traditional diet of little meat and are virtually disease-free. The younger generations who consume a more Western diet are the ones who are eating more meat and are developing Western-style diseases. Moreover, if you read the book Blue Zones, you’ll notice that all the communities with unusual longevity eat relatively little meat (and in the case of Loma Linda, CA< none at all) but do consume lots of grains, beans, and vegetables.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Loma Linda? You mean the primarily Seventh Day Adventists community where people don’t drink, smoke, use drugs or have sex out of wedlock? That Loma Linda?

          They’ve been running an ongoing health study there, did you know that?

          “What we see is that, when the definition of “vegetarian” in the Adventist study is limited people who are actually vegetarian, we get pretty much the same findings as the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC) study of vegetarians from a few years ago — that there is no significant difference in death rates between (actual) vegetarians and meat-eaters/fish-eaters.”

          http://www.vegsource.com/news/2013/06/dont-go-vegetarian-or-vegan-for-health-benefits.html

          Turns out that among the Seventh Day Adventists, disease and mortality was the same whether you were vegan or a meat-eater, which would suggest that their longevity has far more to do with their lifestyle than it does their diets.

        • lele23

          I am very familiar with the study. Here’s a link:
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2671114/

          You’ll note that it showed “that all variants of vegetarian diets were associated with substantially lower risk of type 2 diabetes and lower BMI than nonvegetarian diets. The protection afforded by vegan and lacto-ovo vegetarian diets was strongest.” This was the case even after adjusting for lifestyle factors such as drinking and smoking.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Totally!

          And even so– with less diabetes and lower BMIs, vegetarians still died just as often and from the same diseases, at the same rates as omnis. That’s something, isn’t it? It’s so lacking in nutrition that it completely nullifies any benefit one would expect to see from weight loss.

        • QuentonQuale

          I would think that the preponderance of diabetes found in today’s population is from diets high in carbohydrates, not meat. Sadly, much of it in the form of sugar and refined starches but I’m sure that many vegetarians are using more carbs to replace healthy meats so as to feel satiated.

        • Paleo Huntress

          People are NOT eating more meat than ever. According to the USDA’s food consumption report, people are eating 75 pounds less animal food per person, per year than we were eating in 1950. What we’re eating more of is grain, vegetable oil, and sugar. And, FWIW, we’re also eating more fruits and veggies. Go figure…

          How exactly can we blame the meat here?

        • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

          Eating ANY form of animal product will shut your DNA down…slowly. http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?18116-Eating-animal-products-will-shut-down-your-dna

          Your Diet Affects Your Childrens’ and Grandchildrens’ DNA http://www.livescience.com/21902-diet-epigenetics-grandchildren.html

          The risk of colorectal cancer is associated with the frequency of meat consumption in a population-based cohort in Korea. (Korea is fond of pork belly by the way.) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22296386

          Human participants have confirmed that heme iron from meat significantly increases the production of cancerous N-nitroso compounds (NOC) in the digestive tract. http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/content/4/2/177

          Two Components of Red Meat Combined With Alteration in DNA Repair Increase Risk for Bladder Cancer http://www.aacr.org/home/public-media/aacr-in-the-news.aspx?d=2882

          What American government tests found in your meat (April 16th 2013) If you become ill from antibiotic-resistant bacteria, doctors have fewer drug options to treat you.

          “Don’t blame meat, worship it before you swallow it.”

        • Paleo Huntress

          Considering that our early ancestors were almost completely carnivorous, and that human being enjoy a booming population today, the claim that “Eating ANY form of animal product will shut your DNA down…slowly” is one of total and absolute bullshit.

          You are a menace, Kelly.

        • NutritionWellnessSpecialist

          Our early caveman ancestors also died at age 30 and the animals that they ate (after exerting plenty of energy physically hunting) were nothing like the animals that are in existence now. Plus, the animals themselves ate a completely different diet, as the grass that naturally grew back then was not subject to environmental contaminants that today’s unwashed crops experience. I appreciate that a lot of people get emotional when their taste buds and stomachs are threatened with removing or curtailing an enjoyable food group, and the natural reaction is to be defensive. The western diet usually involves a gross over-consumption of animal flesh due to excessive servings and a narrow view of what constitutes protein, resulting in little variety. (Steaks are fine, but what about nutritional yeast, mushrooms, quinoa?) As far as your protein requirements go, your require .7 (yes; decimal seven) grams of protein per kilogram (2.2 lbs) of body weight. So if you are moderately active and weigh 125 lbs, you would require 39 grams of protein. BTW, I’m not a vegetarian or vegan.

        • Paleo Huntress

          NutritionWellnessSpecialist,

          “Our early caveman ancestors also died at age 30″

          No, they didn’t. If a paleo human made it to the age of 15, his life expectancy was 54, and this was an average, meaning many lived quite a bit longer. (Evolutionary Anthropology 9 (4): 156–185) And just for context, the life expectancy at the turn of the century (1900) was 49. Nobody’s emotional… fact is simply fact. The bulk of the early human diet was meat. Period.

          “the grass that naturally grew back then was not subject to environmental contaminants that today’s unwashed crops experience”

          Claiming that today’s animals are unhealthy because their food plants are contaminated, and then suggesting that therefore we should eat more of those contaminated plants directly ourselves instead, is about as ass-backward an argument as one can make. Eat animals that eat organic plants. Easy. If your argument is that even organics are contaminated, then the only real solution is to stop eating. >.<

          “The western diet usually involves a gross over-consumption of animal flesh due to excessive servings and a narrow view of what constitutes protein”

          Bullshit. We’re eating less animal food than ever. We are certainly eating less than our ancestors ate. Nutritional yeast and quinoa?! NOBODY was eating nutritional yeast and quinoa a million years ago. And you’d have to eat FOUR POUNDS of mushrooms for the same protein you’d get in an 8oz bison steak. If animal food was causing disease in our culture, then 64 years ago when we were eating 75 pounds more animal food, we’d have had MORE disease than we do now, not less.

          “As far as your protein requirements go, your require .7 (yes; decimal seven) grams of protein per kilogram (2.2 lbs) of body weight.”

          Although it’s really kewl that you state your opinion so emphatically, the fact is that it is just that, an opinion, and the experts disagree.

          Evidence that protein requirements have been significantly underestimated | Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2010 Jan;13(1):52-7

          “Considering the inherent problems associated with the nitrogen balance method, we developed an alternative method, the indicator amino acid oxidation technique, to determine protein requirements The mean and population-safe requirements in adult men were determined to be 0.93 and 1.2 g/kg/day and are 41 and 50%, respectively, higher than the current Dietary Reference Intakes recommendations.”

          “The indicator amino acid oxidation-based requirement values of 0.93 and 1.2 g protein/kg/day and the reanalysis of existing nitrogen balance studies are significantly higher than current recommendations. Therefore, there is an urgent need to reassess recommendations for protein intake in adult humans.”

          This means that if you’re a 180 lb moderately active adult man, your protein requirements are between 74.0 grams (yes; 74 decimal) and 96.0 grams (also 96 decimal). That’s BUCKETS of mushrooms! Any extra protein is converted to glucose. So just like fat and carbohydrate, extra protein provides CALORIES for energy. You know what’s really interesting about all of the “but you only need x, y, z grams of protein” bullshit?! You don’t need ANY carbohydrate– and yet, that’s what you’re suggesting we replace the protein with?

          “BTW, I’m not a vegetarian or vegan.”

          Sadly, having no bias doesn’t mean you’re educated either.

        • Drorangelove

          I am absolute certain it was the red meat that was doing them in at 30.

        • Arizelle

          Hi Paleo Huntress! My apologies, I’m very late to the discussion. Just thought I’d share some interesting ideas from the amazing world-renowned anthropologist Richard Leakey. It was originally assumed by some that the sharp canine teeth were an indicator of a carnivorous diet, however the sharp canine teeth are designed for grasping and tearing food. Surprisingly many herbivores actually have canines- hippos, cows, gorillas, etc. Richard Leakey wrote a fantastic book (Origin of Humankind) discussing why we evolved the way we did and our closest ancestors. Richard Leakey’s ideas were that our ancestors canine teeth weren’t actually functional in the way one would need to utilize them in “ripping and tearing flesh” like originally imagined. It’s not to say our bodies aren’t meant for meat historically, as in other Leakey writings it’s also been shown where humans of course did still enjoy meat: “Remember that the eating of meat on the African savannah,” Leakey said, “although it’s in big packages, and you can share it, still accounts for a relatively small part of your diet. Even with the successful scavengers and successful hunters, meat is a rather small part of the diet, except in places like the Arctic…” but like dogs, we were possibly more scavengers (versus hunters.) I think it’s interesting when studying more primitive tribes we see a lot of variety with our bodies usually adapting to our surroundings, and eating what’s available!

        • cheshirecatkiss

          Dear Kelly,
          Paleolithic man ate readily available vegetables, tubers, nuts, and low risk protein like marine animals–fish, mollusks, small mammels. Larger mammal kills typically, but not exclusively, required organized hunting and was expensive from an energy standpoint.
          The fact that humans are great runners who could run down large game points to this past.

          However, even as organised hunting did produce large amounts of meat, which was consumed for the last 250,000 years (probably much older), we are opportunistic omnivores, and on average never ate more than 20% of calories from meat. Check out Richard Wrangham’s excellent book: Catching Fire; How Cooking Made Us Human.

          There is nothing in our evolutionary past to suggest that we can’t eat better forms of proteins than animal-based ones–or eat a diet strictly of animal-based proteins to the exclusion of all else.

          Most people run these days to be physically fit, not to chase antelopes.

        • lele23

          “Almost completely carnivorous”? What species are you, anyway? The rest of us here, as far as I know, are descended from primates, who consume a largely plant-based diet.

        • http://facebook.com/oh.snap.its.knapp Justin Knapp

          Every link you gave provides almost no medical journal or paper to the source material. Your argument is invalid.

        • cheshirecatkiss

          This entire post is grossly irresponsible and merely topical. It lacks any true understanding of the ongoing diet wars from both a scientific perspective or any age-related experience.
          It is shallow despite its attempt at being well-intentioned.
          I am not a supporter of soy or Dean Ornish, but I also do not support many of the suggestions and conclusions in this post made by the author. It has been stated by medical professionals that Steve Jobs acquired his first pancreatic cells in his mid-twenties [appx 24] based on cell division and cancer cell growth rates. It is also felt that his exposure to various carcinogenic compounds (such as lead) used during the hands-on construction of his first computers gave rise to his cancer. My own experience with a high animal protein/fat diet that includes dairy (mostly B. Sears Zone Diet) has been obesity, cancer, and diabetes. Since eating a more starch-based diet, cruciferous RAW vegetables, oatmeal, legumes, onions, garlic and some vegetable protein supplemented with B vitamin groups including B12, and Reishi, Maiyake, Shitaki mushrooms I have lost weight easily, stabilized blood sugar to healthy low levels, and gone cancer-free. I have noticed that many touting the Paleo diet are young–20s, 30s–and involved in fairly serious exercise regimes. No doubt heavy exercise pushes one toward protein diets, but what happens when you stop? I am now 50 but was a serious athlete in my youth. When I stopped due to injuries in my early forties, the protein diet DID NOT help me. (Look at the bodies of ex-athletes, many of them of the bulkier, larger frame gene type are in really bad shape and cannot keep the weight off–or the diseases.

          Switching to a more starch-based diet like mentioned above solved all my health problems. And trust me, I was deeply ingrained in Paleo/protien thinking for most of my adult life. I feared that a starch-based diet (mind you, no pasta, mainly oats) would spike insulin levels, inflate fat cells, etc., etc. I was wrong.
          I should also add that I have spent time in Asia and am no stranger to monastaries and ashrams, but what I found in Asia is that mostly everyone is thin who eat starches like rice and vegatables. (The high altitude monks in Nepal are still eating below 25% of their diet as meat/Yak milk. Also know that high-altitude populations have selected for different genes in which to deal with oxygen and respiration. Due to this, the ROS cycle may be very diffrerent than low-altitude populations. They are NOT a good population example to cite.) When Asians eat western-styled diest including plenty of protien, they get fat and show all the symptoms of western dietary diseases.

          To all of you Gary Taubes followers, know that I read with much enthusiasm his observations about protien and diet. I also followed the mortality rates for both meat eaters and vegetarians. My belief is that many vegetarians are unhealthy due to the consumption of bad oils, omega 6, soy-based products, and lack of B12. I also KNOW from my own experience and from watching others that a high protien diet is equally damaging. (BTW, check out the relationship between insulin growth factor 1, homocystiene and cancer. At best, clean milk is for children. Why? Because they are growing. It is not for adults. Also, check out the ubiquitous levels of bovine leukemia virus USA cattle. And know how antibiotic use in cattle makes them gain weight.)

          The various genetic/phenotypic switches for cancer are turned on by a high protien/fat diet. (Research the anti-cancerous effects of raw, chopped cruciferous vegetables to see how important they are.)

          The appeal of high-protein diets to 20 and 30-year-olds is a psychological reflex akin to overachieving–attempting to make yourself as best as can be despite the fact that you’re already physically an adult.

          High protein is to the diet world what SUVs are to the auto industry.

          The question is the following: How do you wish to spend your later decades?
          Both strict vegetarian and high protien diets emphatically highlight the idea that you will have a low quality, disease-prone final decade. Or two.

          PS: Some big thoughts for anyone interested: As great as the free speech Western worldview is, and as great as the offerings of the Enlightenment have been, at this point, the Western worldview is deeply suspect while being pathologically addicted to all-things growth and power at the expense of all else for its continued dominance. It is a deeply pervasive fetish, a type of philosophic cult high on a type of cultural steroid–cultural narcissism–that is, under its various banners of liberalism, Keynesianism, and “Might is Right,” no different than other forms of totalitarianism. (The hard Austrian school offers no ultimate help either.)
          We have lost our self-correcting instinct
          The Western worldview in its present economic form is itself a form of polluting, metastasizing cancer. We have exported the economic machinery of which to our Eastern neighbors instead of first learning about responsible stewardship, reciprocity, building true communities, and cultivating true leadership. And no, I don’t support Eastern totalitarian governments either, or have any mystically infused ideas about the superiority of the East. If anything, the rise of India and China (Asia) will make our world more polluted and more cancerous.

          We need to stop being adolescents.

        • lele23

          Brilliant; thanks.

        • cheshirecatkiss

          Paleolithic man ate readily available vegetables, tubers, nuts, and low risk protein like marine animals–fish, mollusks, small mammels. Larger mammal kills typically, but not exclusively, required organized hunting and was expensive from an energy standpoint.
          The fact that humans are great runners who could run down large game points to this past.

          However, even as organised hunting did produce large amounts of meat, which was consumed to the point of extinction for the last 250,000 years (probably much older), we are opportunistic omnivores, and on average never ate more than 20% of calories from meat. Check out Richard Wrangham’s excellent book: Catching Fire; How Cooking Made Us Human.

          There is nothing in our evolutionary past to suggest that we can’t eat better forms of proteins than animal-based ones–or eat a diet strictly of animal-based proteins to the exclusion of all else.

          Case in behavioral point: most people run these days to be physically fit, not to chase antelopes.

        • rarnedsoum

          The bigger question is, are you?

        • Paleo Huntress

          That’s the “bigger question”?

          If you say so…

        • Gross Bro

          Umm… the very same USDA information you cite clearly states otherwise:

          http://www.usda.gov/factbook/chapter2.pdf

          Between 1950 and 2000, “In 2000, Americans consumed an average 57 pounds more meat than they did annually in the 1950s”

          Unless you’re referring to another USDA? :-)

        • Brock Leham

          Hey Paleo Huntress, where are you getting your data that, “people are eating 75 pounds less animal food per person, per year than we were eating in 1950″?

          Link please.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Hey, why don’t I Google that for you. =)

          USDA’s food consumption report

          And what do you know, it’s the second hit on the list. (I don’t think you looked very hard, Brock.)

          In 1950, people averaged:

          138.2 lb total meat

          41 lbs (374) eggs

          703 lbs dairy

          10.5 lbs lard and tallow

          9 lbs butter

          = 901.7 lbs of animal food total (1950)

          In 2005, people averaged:

          195 lbs total meat ((only 7 lbs of this increase are red)

          27.55 lbs (250) eggs

          593 lbs dairy

          6 lbs lard and tallow

          4.6 lbs butter

          = 826.15 lbs of animal food total (2005)

          That would be 75 POUNDS less animal food per person, per year.

          On the plant end-

          Fruit consumption is UP 30 lbs per person, per year.
          Fresh veggie consumption is up 53lbs per person, per year
          Grain consumption is up 45 lbs per person, per year and within that,

          -Corn consumption has doubled

          -Rice consumption has quadrupled

          -Wheat consumption is up 21 lbs per person, per year

          Liquid veggie oil consumption is up 26 lbs per person, per year
          Veggie shortening consumption was up 13 lbs per person, per year

          Sugar consumption is up 43 lbs per person, per year

          That’s 210 pounds more plant-based foods per person, per year.

          Yeah, it’s all about the animal food.

        • Brock Leham

          Paleo Huntress: Thank you for admitting that meat consumption is up. :-)

          It’s sad that Americans are over-consuming grains, meat, sugar, oils, isn’t it?

        • Paleo Huntress

          Brock, thank you for admitting that dairy consumption is down. :-)

          It’s sad that you don’t understand that eggs and dairy are just another form of meat.. 😉

          Americans don’t eat enough animal food and saturated fat, and they eat too much grain, vegetable oil and sugar.

          Please learn what “being served” actually means, dear. I’m embarrassed for you.

        • Brock Leham

          “Americans don’t eat enough animal food and saturated fat”
          Yet, the data says that our consumption of meat is up, even after factoring the daily caloric intake increase.

          The USDA data shows that meat has seen the largest % increase of any category, including grains, added sweeteners and added fats.

          “It’s sad that you don’t understand that eggs and dairy are just another form of meat.”

          So you’re saying vegetarians aren’t actually vegetarians?

          You’re a little bit over your head there, hunter chicky-poo. :-)

        • Paleo Huntress

          Yes, I’m most definitely saying that vegetarians who eat eggs and dairy are not vegetarians. Vegetarians eat only plant foods, so they are flesh-free omnivores.

          Duh.

        • Brock Leham

          Well, by definition and reality, you’re wrong. Sorry.

        • Paleo Huntress

          By definition, an omnivore is an animal that eats foods from BOTH plant and animal sources. This is why “vegetarians” need special designations for their animal food consumption- lacto-ovo-pesca, etc.

          om·ni·vore
          noun
          an animal or person that eats food of both plant and animal origin.

          Last time I checked, eggs, dairy and fish are part of the ANIMAL kingdom. Removing one of MANY animal food types makes one a vegetarian?! Only if not eating insects make ME a vegetarian too…

          I know, I’m a lacto-ovo-pesca-bovine-porcine-galline-vegetarian! And as such, I’m as much a vegetarian as any eggs, dairy or fish eating vegetarian.

          Also, FWIW, statistically, the average “vegetarian” eats as much animal food by volume as the typical omni.

          Please come join us in THIS reality where even the experts know that a vegetarian eats ONLY plant foods and only those with hubris similar to yours claim otherwise.

          Sorry.

        • Brock Leham

          Yes, let’s find out what the definition of vegetarian means by looking up the word omnivore. Great work!

          Vegetarian (according to Merriam-Webster):

          consisting wholly of vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts, and sometimes eggs or dairy products

          Just take the L and be on your way.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Awww, don’t be all butt-hurt, it’s not my fault that egg, dairy and fish eaters also happen to be omnivores.

          ~whispers~ (I hear it has something to do with the “omni” root word. I can’t help it if going vegetarian makes English comprehension a challenge.)

          2/3 to 3/4 of the calories in the standard American diet come from plants. I think we should all designate ourselves vegetarians. Don’t you?

          Now I know that you’re feeling all triumphant because you think you’ve won some sort of word game, but the fact is that you lost the reality game. You know, the one where people are eating 75 lbs more ANIMAL FOOD now than we were in the 50s. And before you get all superior again over what you imagine was you forcing the distinction, please note that in the very first comment you replied to, I specifically state that it’s “animal food”.

          You just fail in every way that matters. Sucks to be you.

        • Brock Leham

          Sounds like you’re getting a little upset. No need to get personal! This is all in good fun (and science, after all).

          So, let’s hear how sound your reasoning is.

          Meat consumption is already at an all time high, as observed. Eating “more” obviously doesn’t work.

          Animal by-products are down. OK, let’s increase them!

          But wait! Milk products are highly problematic for the majority of people, and isn’t considered paleo. Oops, cross that off the list.

          So that leave us with eggs. The solution must be in the eggs! Eat more eggs and less whole plant foods; it’ll cure all of our diseases!

          OK, everyone, stop all the studies! She has THE solution!

          Wow, congrats Paleo Girlie! Collect your Nobel Prize! :-)

        • Paleo Huntress

          Great straw man building, but the point remains the same.

          We’re eating 75 pounds less animal food than we ate in the 50s. We’re also eating more fresh fruit and veggies (80 pounds!) and we are sicker than ever. You can’t blame it on the animal food no matter how you twist it.

          Feel free to start a new discussion if you wish to explore your straw man instead. But do try to stick to the topic here.

        • Brock Leham

          What’s straw man about that?

          Your reasoning lacks sense. Your solution is to increase animal consumption, when meat intake is at an all time high, milk products make people sick, so naturally, eggs are your fall back argument.

          Whereas, we have hundreds of studies involving millions of people that show that increasing whole plant food consumption cuts many of our risk factors. And this is controlling for crappy habits.

          But wait, the Inuit don’t eat plants! And they’re in great shape! Right — except for the fact that they have the highest rates of osteoporosis and osteoarthritis on the planet.

          The CDC says that we’re not consuming more veggies or fruits (on the contrary, we’re buying them, but not eating them), we eat less than 2 servings a day. Compare that with meat, which we eat 7 oz per day, meaning 30% of our caloric consumption is coming strictly from meat. Interesting stuff.

          http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/downloads/state-indicator-report-fruits-vegetables-2013.pdf

          Just to be clear, my argument is not to decrease animal consumption, it’s to increase whole foods in general and ditch trash like grains, processed foods.

          However, your solution is to increase animal product consumption which has exactly no scientific evidence or has even remotely a correlation to being “healthful” — when in fact the data shows otherwise.

        • Paleo Huntress

          “However, your solution is to increase animal product consumption.”

          It is? Please quote the source of that claim.

        • lele23

          Incorrect. Vegans are the subset of vegetarians who eat only plant foods. Vegetarians can be lacto-, ovo-, lacto-ovo-, or vegan.

        • Paleo Huntress

          From the Medical Dictionary-

          strict vegetarian

          A vegetarian who consumes no animal products, including meat, fish, poultry, dairy foods, or eggs. All foods consumed are plant-based, including fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds,grain, and soy foods. Also called vegan.

          vegan

          A vegetarian who consumes only plant foods (vegetables, fruits, grains, beans and nuts) and no animal products (meat, fish, dairy products, eggs).

          If you eat eggs, dairy or fish, you are an omnivore. =)

        • lele23

          You’re quite the cherry picker. Also from the Medical Dictionary: “Many vegetarians eat eggs and milk but avoid all animal flesh.” It goes on to describe the various types of vegetarians I listed for you.
          If you eat fish, then yes, you are an omnivore, but even according to YOUR source, “many vegetarians eat eggs and milk.” Case closed.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Uh oh… you said the case closed… I guess that means I can’t comment any more. LMAO

          What people choose to call themselves and what they actually ARE is two different things. People like the vegetarian label because it makes them feel “better than”, but in all actuality, the typical vegetarian eats as much animal food as the typical omni, it just happen to be non-flesh animal food.

          You cannot be both a vegetarian and an omnivore. Vegetarians eat ONLY plants. If you eat eggs, dairy or fish, you’re an omnivore.

          I’m a vegetarian too! A lacto-ovo-pesca-bovine-porcine-galline-vegetarian. In fact, EVERYONE here is YOUR definition of a vegetarian!

          Case open. 😉

        • lele23

          Sure, you’re more than welcome to continue with your incorrect terminology. I wonder why it’s so important to you, even when your own source proved you wrong.

          “Vegetarian” is a social construct, by the way, not a biological term like “herbivore.” You seem to be confusing the two.

          The typical vegetarian certainly does not eat as much animal food as the typical omni. For many, it’s no more than the milk on breakfast cereal, the occasional egg in a baked good, and cheese maybe a few times a week. Typical omnis eat all that plus meat and fish. Though that little bit can do a lot of damage…My health improved markedly when I went from vegetarian to vegan over a decade ago.

        • Paleo Huntress

          If one could eat eggs, dairy and fish as a vegetarian, vegetarians wouldn’t need qualifiers like ovo, pesca and lacto.

          As I said, on average, a self-identified vegetarian eats as much animal food as a meat-eater. Vegetarian cultures like those found in India eat fresh cheese and yogurt as a meat replacement.

          A vegetarian co-worker of mine eats bagels and cream cheese with yogurt for breakfast, grilled cheese for lunch and mac and cheese or pizza for dinner. She eats cheese in just about every meal. Not to mention the muffins and pancakes and waffles and cookies, etc. etc. etc… that use eggs.

          “The term “vegetarian” was … first coined by the Alcott House… was named in honor of American education and food reform advocate Amos Bronson Alcott. The students and members followed a diet completely free of any animal products, including eggs and dairy…” ~http://iheartar.com/2012/06/07/the-shifting-definition-of-veganism/

          Omnivores eat foods from both the plant and animal groups. No matter how many times you try and redefine it, a diet that includes both plant foods and animal foods is by definition, an omnivorous diet.

        • lele23

          You have yet to provide a source for your opinion that vegetarians eat as much animal food as meat eaters do. Most omnivores consume dairy and egg as well, and knowledgeable vegetarians will “replace” the meat that they give up with legumes, whole grains, nuts and seeds, not with additional dairy and egg. Vegetarians in India don’t eat dairy as a meat “replacement” because those individuals never gave up meat; in most cases, their family’s tradition hasn’t included it for many generations. If you’re talking about protein, then sure, some protein comes from dairy, in addition to the legumes and grains consumed at every meal.

          Your coworker has a really lousy diet. Whole-foods, 100% plant-based, with fats from nuts, seeds, and avocado, is much more healthful than cheesy, highly processed vegetarian.

        • Paleo Huntress

          I agree that whole foods are best– it’s just a shame that junk-food vegetarians are so prevalent. It makes sense from a logical perspective though, most junk food is plant-based and “vegetarian”.

          The table below is from this peer-reviewed analysis:
          Nutritional profile of Indian vegetarian diets – the Indian Migration Study (IMS)
          Nutrition Journal 2014, 13:55

          Food consumption patterns of Indian migration study population

          Vegetarians ate: (no fish or egg eaters were looked at)

          352.8 grams of dairy per day (mostly in the form of paneer).
          __________________
          352.8 grams of animal food per day eaten by vegetarians

          Non-vegetarians ate:

          291.2 grams of dairy
          3.9 grams of fish
          20.3 grams of meat
          0.1 grams of eggs
          291.2 grams of dairy
          __________________
          315.5 grams of animal food per day eaten by non-vegetarians

          In this study of Indian vegetarians, they eat 37.5 more grams of animal food than meat-eaters. Ten percent isn’t much, but it’s still actually MORE than the meat-eaters.

        • Amadeus Monroe

          That meat is really bad for the supposed lesser amount being eaten. All around me people are eating it morning, noon and night.. like its going out of style. In fact, they cannot conceive of skipping it, even for a day. They are utterly and completely brainwashed to believe that this is some kind of necessary staple in their diet.

        • Paleo Huntress

          lol Tell us more, oh wise one.

        • Jerilyn Bridges

          There are Africans who ate less meat living into the hundreds! My grandmother lived to be 94. She ate lots of carbs and honey! There are several tribes surviving on Yams and Tarrow living to be 110 years old! As an Afircan American, I have read enough research regarding the dangers of pork and other meats!nwhenever these so called scientists are confronted with these facts, they blame our ” inferior genes” However when Chinese doctors confront their skewed science, the Chinese find our genes just fine and tell us to”lay off the meat” Since Dr. Ornish has not bought into the inferior gene BS, I’ll listen to hom! I got too many meat eating kin folks in the ground as it is( and not all of them were fat!).

      • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

        Er Deborah….not true totally. There are 2 tribes in the whole world who do not have diseases and still ride horses at age 90 because they have strong bones. They eat meat only on wedding and festive occasions.

        They have no gout, no short-sightedness, no arthritis, no heart or kidney disease, no diabetes, no cancer, and jump and run like they’re 30s in their 80s. They do not live in the city nor do they eat processed foods.

        And Mr Churchill was NOT healthy. He had multi-infarct mini-strokes which is associated with a progressive and mild dementia. I watched his black and white form speak on TV as a kid and he was often breathless!

        What you put into yourself has a lot to do with how you feel. Your genes are actually shaped for generations on what your cells and your ancestors’ cells are being fed.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Please cite your source for the claims about the “two tribes” you mention.

        • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

          At the risk of exposing them to cattle ranchers and illegal loggers, you will have to travel to find them. Hint: One of the 70+ Peruvian tribes and the other I will only rev eal when and if I write a book. My nutritional info took me 4 years of self-study and discovery.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Well how kewl is that?

          What methods did you use for determining their health statuses? What tests did you run? How many EKGs and ultrasounds did you perform? What equipment did you use for blood analysis? How did you determine their ages accurately?

          Enquiring minds want to know!

        • Stephanie Smith

          Wait for Kelly’s book.

        • Robin Willcourt

          NYT best selling FICTION?

        • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

          Thank you – that could be an idea for my author friend whose writings lean more towards espionage!

        • Paleo Huntress

          I’m looking forward to it… I can’t wait to read about how these tribes don’t suffer from “short-sightedness”. LMAO

        • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

          Easy, do your own tests. Loads of meat out there including insects!

        • Paleo Huntress

          Uh, no, Kelly. You claim to have gathered so much evidence on Peruvian tribes that you could write a book!

          The question is, what methods did YOU use to gather the information?

          I already have my own experience where veganism practically destroyed me, but the plural of anecdote ins’t data. N=1. So, what scientific methods did you use to gather this information?

        • Robin Willcourt

          Er, you mean self deception, don’t you?

        • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

          “Why not address the issue directly with government etc on how to make farming practices more humane? ”
          Robin Willcourt, do you know of any animal who offered themselves to be killed so you can eat their meat? There is no such thing as humane in meat slaughter. The govt already knows the flaws of monoculture agriculture and not doing much despite petitions. That is even more absurd if you are to rely on the govt for the safety of your foods, etc. :)

          Self-deception? lol

        • Robin Willcourt

          Well, Kelly, before we ate the low fat, processed foods with multi grains, we humnas did very well on antelope, oysters and fat, fat, fat. Carbs were a rarity. Fruit is only available to eat safely when it is ripe. The Inuit, the Masai and the Hadzabes are great examples of very very low carb diets, rich in meat and fat.
          The Australian aboriginals and many other nomadic peoples, when first discovered and NOT tainted by our revolting modern diets, lived well, long and healthy.

          Agriculture has destroyed more of our ecology than any other single human intervention. Whole ecosystems of plants and animals have been decimated in order to grow vegetable matter. Planting more vegetable matter would be insanity.

          The truth is a Paleo diet with only Mother Nature involved in the production of our food needs is the ONLY way to live but to achieve that we have to decrease the planet’s population by a few billion. Bottom line is that we are doomed.

        • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

          Sorry, I disagree that the Paleo diet is the only one that Mother Nature is involved with. If so, then may be you are also referring to diet with insects.

          The Paleo diet existed about the time man lost his ability to produce vitamin C. Humans used to produce his own vitamin C and somewhere along the road, he lost it.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Botulism is a product of meat PRESERVATION, not meat eating. It has nothing to do with the quantity of the meat in their diet.

          As for vitamin C production, this is generally the argument vegans use to convince us that humans are natural herbivores. The problem with YOUR claim however, is that vitamin C production would have been prominent DURING a period where early humans ate a mostly meat diet, not after it. After all, if we’re not eating any fruits and veggies, we’d benefit from the ability to synthesize vitamin C. In other words, this claim–> “The Paleo diet existed about the time man lost his ability to produce vitamin C” is utter bunk.

          Finally, because glucose metabolism interferes with vitamin C pathways, diets very low in carbohydrate conserve vitamin C, and only a tiny amount is needed.

      • Mojo

        I’m really surprised to see how many 90 years old people are posting messages on this blogs! Come one people, get real!

      • Guest

        The other day I accidentally bought some cheese dip instead of humus. As a vegan I would never go near dairy as it’s disgusting like meat. Anyway I tried to eat the cheese dip and when I ate some and realised I felt immediately sick. I ran to the toilet and puked it up luckily because the longer it would have been in my stomach the more cancer I would get….

      • GG

        If your family is all really that age than y’all must have good genes regarding your aging process. Plus a Mediterranean diet is not a unhealthy one. However for some people (like myself) my body rejects almost all animal products. Steve jobs had pancreatic cancer. That meant his body rejects fat and animal as well.

      • Amadeus Monroe

        Genetics plays a key issue. However as healthy as some people are in their later years, they always look very old. If they were vegan, they would look 30 years younger at least and also be very healthy and full of energy. I hear and read this all the time, a few people bragging how they are much older eating dead animals and yet they look very very old for their age, and the populace believes this is “normal”, it is NOT normal to look very old for that age group. Also a few people bragging about feeling great, and others in their own same family (genetics) is irresponsible to say because others of the same age are suffering with all kinds of diseases and have eaten the same way. They are frail, look terrible and are at deaths door, sometimes earlier in their 70’s. They need help.

      • cheshirecatkiss

        Cancer just surpassed heart disease as the #1 killer of Americans. Please spare me the outliers and genetic exceptions, most people–like nearly 50%–acquire a diet-related disease when consuming either strictly meat-based diet or strictly vegetarian.

    • sdr984

      That is called anecdotal evidence. Peer reviewed study please.

    • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

      Agree with you that he lasted longer on a “veget” diet although he ate fish for awhile! The meat industry killed him – through organ transplants the body naturally rejected!

    • Listen to this guy

      Yes. Even though the bulletproofexecutive claims a brand that reps total health, many of the things he’s done are indeed questionable. Truly, it looks like a brand that more represents fun and, personal interests that are then rationalized thereafter into something likeable and sellable, more than science based rationalization or evidenced proof. My recommendation would be to throw this propaganda post out the window if not at least because it’s in alignment with the owner’s products of which many are not vegetarian. There is countless information coming out that is pro-vegetarian, and a counter to much of what this blog entry wrote.

      If the website blogger were more up front about his motives there wouldn’t be this issue.

      Cheers

      • Paleo Huntress

        While it’s kind of you to be so concerned with potential issues, rest assured that no critically thinking person has any issues with Dave’s blog. Your concerns are noted and appreciated, and you can move along now. Most of us aren’t looking for vegetarian options. 😉

        Cheers!

        • Listen to this guy

          I’m glad to know you’re an idiot and biased. “No critically thinking person has any issues with Dave’s blog”. You mean to say you know every individual who is writing on this blog personally? Your blanket statement demonstrates a lack of critical thinking. I think what you meant to say is that you lack critical thinking skills, and therefore project it onto to others.

          In group think (look it up) you’re doing something called mind guarding (look it up).

          You should buy yourself a bulletproof vest, then you would really be bulletproof.

          As for this website, blog, and target market, i both respect and commend David and what he’s done and stands for but, there is a limit that when crossed automatically sends up a red flag.

          I support him as a fellow entrepreneur – the world needs more people who think like Dave – I can at least say he’s 10x further ahead of the typical American.

          Now, Good luck – because I will not be responding – or reading – what you write in response to this.

          Farewell.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Aww, that’s so cute… I can actually picture the little foot-stomp and red face that went along with that little ad hominem rant. 😉

          I support him because he is correct and scientifically factual. That is one of those critical-thinking behaviors though, and you may still be working your way up to that and may not be ready for such mind-blowing evolution as of yet.

          Criticism of the argument without evidence… it’s the hallmark of a troll.

          Best!

    • whisperingsage1

      The grain industry is far worse.

    • Jerilyn Bridges

      You are correct! I think the fact that I don’t drink regularily , coupled with the fact that I don’t smoke is saving me now! I still have the chronic tooth decay of an Europeanized meat eater!

    • cheshirecatkiss

      This entire post is grossly irresponsible and merely topical. It lacks any true understanding of the ongoing diet wars from both a scientific perspective or any age-related experience.
      It is shallow despite its attempt at being well-intentioned.
      I am not a supporter of soy or Dean Ornish, but I also do not support many of the suggestions and conclusions in this post made by the author. It has been stated by medical professionals that Steve Jobs acquired his first pancreatic cells in his mid-twenties [appx 24] based on cell division and cancer cell growth rates. It is also felt that his exposure to various carcinogenic compounds (such as lead) used during the hands-on construction of his first computers gave rise to his cancer. My own experience with a high animal protein/fat diet that includes dairy (mostly B. Sears Zone Diet) has been obesity, cancer, and diabetes. Since eating a more starch-based diet, cruciferous RAW vegetables, oatmeal, legumes, onions, garlic and some vegetable protein supplemented with B vitamin groups including B12, and Reishi, Maiyake, Shitaki mushrooms I have lost weight easily, stabilized blood sugar to healthy low levels, and gone cancer-free. I have noticed that many touting the Paleo diet are young–20s, 30s–and involved in fairly serious exercise regimes. No doubt heavy exercise pushes one toward protein diets, but what happens when you stop? I am now 50 but was a serious athlete in my youth. When I stopped due to injuries in my early forties, the protein diet DID NOT help me. (Look at the bodies of ex-athletes, many of them of the bulkier, larger frame gene type are in really bad shape and cannot keep the weight off–or the diseases.

      Switching to a more starch-based diet like mentioned above solved all my health problems. And trust me, I was deeply ingrained in Paleo/protien thinking for most of my adult life. I feared that a starch-based diet (mind you, no pasta, mainly oats) would spike insulin levels, inflate fat cells, etc., etc. I was wrong.
      I should also add that I have spent time in Asia and am no stranger to monastaries and ashrams, but what I found in Asia is that mostly everyone is thin who eat starches like rice and vegatables. (The high altitude monks in Nepal are still eating below 25% of their diet as meat/Yak milk. Also know that high-altitude populations have selected for different genes in which to deal with oxygen and respiration. Due to this, the ROS cycle may be very diffrerent than low-altitude populations. They are NOT a good population example to cite.) When Asians eat western-styled diest including plenty of protien, they get fat and show all the symptoms of western dietary diseases.

      To all of you Gary Taubes followers, know that I read with much enthusiasm his observations about protien and diet. I also followed the mortality rates for both meat eaters and vegetarians. My belief is that many vegetarians are unhealthy due to the consumption of bad oils, omega 6, soy-based products, and lack of B12. I also KNOW from my own experience and from watching others that a high protien diet is equally damaging. (BTW, check out the relationship between insulin growth factor 1, homocystiene and cancer. At best, clean milk is for children. Why? Because they are growing. It is not for adults. Also, check out the ubiquitous levels of bovine leukemia virus USA cattle. And know how antibiotic use in cattle makes them gain weight.)

      The various genetic/phenotypic switches for cancer are turned on by a high protien/fat diet. (Research the anti-cancerous effects of raw, chopped cruciferous vegetables to see how important they are.)

      The appeal of high-protein diets to 20 and 30-year-olds is a psychological reflex akin to overachieving–attempting to make yourself as best as can be despite the fact that you’re already physically an adult.

      High protein is to the diet world what SUVs are to the auto industry.

      The question is the following: How do you wish to spend your later decades?
      Both strict vegetarian and high protien diets emphatically highlight the idea that you will have a low quality, disease-prone final decade. Or two.

      PS: Some big thoughts for anyone interested: As great as the free speech Western worldview is, and as great as the offerings of the Enlightenment have been, at this point, the Western worldview is deeply suspect while being pathologically addicted to all-things growth and power at the expense of all else for its continued dominance. It is a deeply pervasive fetish, a type of philosophic cult high on a type of cultural steroid–cultural narcissism–that is, under its various banners of liberalism, Keynesianism, and “Might is Right,” no different than other forms of totalitarianism. (The hard Austrian school offers no ultimate help either.)
      We have lost our self-correcting instinct
      The Western worldview in its present economic form is itself a form of polluting, metastasizing cancer. We have exported the economic machinery of which to our Eastern neighbors instead of first learning about responsible stewardship, reciprocity, building true communities, and cultivating true leadership. And no, I don’t support Eastern totalitarian governments either, or have any mystically infused ideas about the superiority of the East. If anything, the rise of India and China (Asia) will make our world more polluted and more cancerous.

      We need to stop being adolescents.

    • Sonny

      You are a freak of nature. But the thing is, we all are. Vegetarian diets are very hard for more people than most can imagine. I’ve never been as sick and fat as I was after my ten years of vegetarianism, veganism, and a blinding array of no-meat experiments. Now, ten years after starting to eat meat again, I am healthier than I ever was. I’m exercising more, which is only because it’s now possible; my energy and stress levels allow it.

      Bottom line is that there is no one diet that suits everyone, and everyone should experiment until they find a diet that makes them feel good and energetic. If you strive as a vegan, then congratulations — your chosen diet is better for the environment. Vegan food is also beautiful and delicious. Ten years as a vegetarian taught me to be a better and more imaginative cook than most professional chefs I know.

    • Alex

      What about the Carb Industry, and folks from the CARB producing states like SEN. mcgovern from South Dakota, states that produce high amounts of wheat,corn,soy,etc and get farm subsidies to do it and influence USDA policy as well as the food pyramid.

      Meat eaters often eat veggies but vegans don’t eat dairy,fish,meat so its still one-sided.

    • Marilyn

      You got lucky Mays.

    • VicM

      My grandfather died at 98. He was a chain smoker and enjoyed his steak till his last day. He was fit as an ox, was never sick and died in his sleep. Good lifestyle choices are important but extremes are never good. balance is key. Also you seem to be giving your vegan diet too much credit. Maybe your genes need a pat on the back. Wish you a healthy long life!

    • Roger Lowrey

      Good post.

    • DextersMorgan

      acclimating your body to such diets is the first step then your body demands to be kept in that dietary world.

  • http://twitter.com/JPRichards1 JP Richards

    Poorly researched stab at Dr Ornish.

    “low fat diet like Ornish’s makes your mind less focused.”

    First time to this blog, hopefully last. Aside the author looks likes he’s trying to cash in on the Tim Ferris “4 Hour Work Week” fame. Good luck.

    • Dave Asprey

      JP – did you hear my podcast with Dr. Mary Newport about coconut oil and alzheimers? There is real evidence that low fat diets hurt brain function.

  • Maadlen

    Only raw food can cure cancer, a vegetarian diet doesn’t cure anything. Your article is as bad as your poor knowledge.

  • Durgareiki

    Your ‘facts’ are seriously flawed, Dave. Sorry to disappoint, but you really need to cite SCIENTIFIC research when making claims about strict vegetarian or vegan diets and that they can be ‘harmful’ to you. This is a blatant case of irresponsible reporting if I’ve ever seen one! SHAME on you!

  • Dave Asprey

    LOL. This is one of those times I am tempted to hit the “delete” button on comments that really don’t say anything. But this one is staying, because it does a great job of demonstrating how people can lock on to a belief system and shut off their logic out of fear of being wrong. Here, the main argument is “Dr Ornish does Research and is a professional, so it’s ok that his bad advice kills people, as long as they have their low cholesterol heart attacks believing they were doing the right thing (half of heart attack people have low cholesterol).

    As for running and swimming, I’m the guy who didn’t exercise for 2 years to make a point about calories and exercise. It’s good for you in moderation.

    Finally, Ornish’s “RESEARCH” mixed mindfulness training with his bizarre, brain-draining diet to get results. Then he focused on the diet and ignored the impact of the mindfulness training. Mindfulness training by itself can provide the effects the Ornish diet is claimed to provide.

  • T the vegetarian

    Dean Ornish rocks!!! Vegetarians aren’t evil nor are we bad.

    Since I went vegetarian I haven’t felt sick for four years. Only had the cold a few times in that period lasting but a few hours.

    Keep up the good work, Mr. Ornish

    • Salim Morgan

      Anecdotes aren’t very useful. I am another n=1 experiment and can report completely opposite results. Since I went ultra high-fat, very low-carb ketogenic and highly carnivorous, I’ve had:

      * quick progression to ideal weight where it completely stabilized for the last 3 years
      * BP from borderline high (130/80) to ideal (115/65) where it stays
      * Massive improvement in all lipid numbers except total LDL which stayed exactly the same. Don’t know pre numbers, but post this diet LDL particle size tested all “large fluffy” – harmless
      * All signs of my T2 diabetes GONE without medication
      * Virtually zero illness. When family members get a cold virus or stomach flu, I might “feel” it for a few minutes but never get sick.
      * Visceral fat has disappeared. Most noticeable in much longer and deeper breath. I can recite or sing MUCH longer on one breath.
      * Muscle much easier to build and retain.
      * Greatly improved energy and especially mental alertness and memory
      * Absolute zero GI problems of any kind
      * Almost no need for “fiber” at all (although I get some in my vegetables)

      The list could go on and on.

      This is by eating 75 – 80% of my calories from fat, mostly saturated, mostly animal/dairy with some MUFA like olive oil and avocado. 10 – 15% from protein almost all from red meat (beef, lamb, goat, organ). 5 – 10% from carbs which come from green vegetables.

      I have no doubt we were meant to be OMNIVORES, not eliminating a huge and important category of food which kept us alive for a million years. Grains, on the other hand, which have only been around for at most 10,000 years are not something we have had sufficient time to evolve in order to handle them safely and healthfully. Perhaps some can, I’m not one of them.

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  • Huru_

    this article is so stupid the author has no medical background has travelled the world and goes off personal experience rather than years of science and statistical data

    please go Asprey , Dr Ornish has an actual medical background sees 1000’s of clinical patients where as the author travels to some monk in Nepal and takes his word over critical journals o god i cant believe how stupid some people are

    • Dave Asprey

      Huru,
      Attacking the messenger doesn’t change the message. Did you see the part where I run an anti-aging nonprofit group that has brought more than 100 doctors in to lecture on this stuff? Peace.

  • dddave

    You state “Sadly, vegetarians have a higher mortality rate than people who eat only grass-fed (mycotoxin free) meat.”

    Where is the evidence / study proving this..?

    thanks,
    Dave

  • Joelle Hru

    Vegan diet kills another. RIP MCA.

  • Guest

    This article should act as a reminder as to why there is a need for writers to go to college and receive training on how to conduct and cite research correctly. Every time you make statements such as “Sadly, vegetarians have a higher mortality rate than people who eat only grass-fed (mycotoxin free) meat. No amount of statistical wiggling is going to disprove this basic fact of human existence” You should cite the source which lead you to make this vague and factually incorrect statement. I have no problem with anyone who puts forward a different view to me so long as it is based in some fact. The reason why you do not have many readers respect is that you wrote an article that is very poorly researched and terribly written. Quite embarrassed for you. Stop writing – you have no writing skills!

  • Rob

    The studies keep piling up showing high fat/low carb is healthier. All you carb-o-holics might want listen to this person: CEO of Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, **QUOTE** “You overfeed somebody with carbohydrates and you dramatically increase their cancer rate.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUlE1VHGA40&feature=player_embedded

    • Dave Asprey

      Go Steve! :)

  • Krysten

    this is a ridiculous post. You obviously have no idea what your talking about. You do not lose nutrients- you get so MUCH MORE from being vegan because when you eat more veggies and fruit that is giving you more nutrients. There are absolutely no good to eating meat or cheese besides one measely factor it has- protein. Which you can get lots of other ‘complete proteins’ from vegan foods. which is far better than having dead meat in your body. Which actually hurts your body VERY badly even if you aren’t sick.

    But if you are sick- no way should you eat meat. It takes your body so much digestive enzymes to break down meat and for his body to be using them for that would have been dumb, as opposed to using them to build up his immune system.

    He was a smart man- and he did the right thing- trying to heal him self with food, on his own first. Then turning to medicine as a last resort.

    Please do not ever post something again that you don’t have any clue what your talking about. In many case people save their lives by going on this type of diet. Other times- people are just to sick regardless, and ya can’t just always turn to your freaking medicines to heal you. Thats why we have food. All you carnivores and people who eat ridiculously bad are ignorant. When you have all this knowledge on how to keep your self healthy. We are the ones who create our health future. Figure it out. I hope you learn and change your diet so you can change your life.

    • Dave Asprey

      I generally don’t delete comments unless they are abusive or spam. This one is sadly misinformed and dogmatic, and serves as a great example of vegan “logic.” 😉

    • Rob

      Pardon me Kysten, BUT…

      Dr Ramzi Amri, a researcher at Harvard Medical School, claims the Apple boss had a mild form of cancer that is rarely fatal and that his choice of treatment ‘eventually led to an unnecessarily early death’…

      Jobs is cited to have said himself that he had a so-called neuroendocrine tumors. Neuroendocrine tumors are relatively mild forms of cancer & caught in time can be treated just by surgically removing the tumor.

      Dr Amri claims that had Mr Jobs had the cancer surgically removed immediately after the disease was diagnosed then he may well have survived with ‘no residual side-effects’.

      You can read the whole story here:

      http://www.quora.com/Steve-Jobs/Why-did-Steve-Jobs-choose-not-to-effectively-treat-his-cancer

      So Kristen what are your credentials for the claim: “He was a smart man- and he did the right thing- trying to heal him self with food, on his own first.”?

      A professional cancer researcher on the type of tumor that affected Steve Jobs in the medical industry came to a different conclusion.

      State your case.

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  • Cindy

    Keeping it simple stupid,
    if we were meant to be vegetarian then our digestive systems would not be able to digest meat.
    We were not however designed to eat processed food or chemicals that get sprayed on or get injected into our so called whole food. I think therein lies the biggest problem with people’s health these days.
    Plus, we all seem to forget, we are out living our ancestors by decades, are we that arrogant to think we should be disease and death free. Imagine the population explosion then!

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  • Kakashi

    Actually I tried the veggie diet…..mostly 95%….it had one weird effect on me…..it effected my testosterone….my mojo was effected. Good thing is I lost weight and fat.

  • john

    Go search some animal killing videos, that is the main reason why we should stop eating meat. If you would die without meat, fine, but if not, stop it.

    • Dave Asprey

      Why look for videos when I am willing and able to kill my own food? Vegan diets cause more deaths per calorie than grass fed meat, hands down.
      Sent from my nobile phone. You understand….

  • Alex

    Wow, just wow. This is an utterly dumb and arrogant article. You call yourself a biohacker? Possibly you should try, lets say, water fasting for a month to justify how you try to present yourself. And we will see how you feel and talk about these subjects after the fast and how your relationship to food will change. Scared to do so? I am sure you are, i can imagine how much emotional junk you will have to part with during that exercise. Much of your fat that you consider to be your muscles will also have to go and surely you would be afraid to part with that too. A hacker? Hackers challenge their own beliefs and are open to new ideas.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ben.blue Ben Blue
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  • pri22

    No doubt Steve Jobs had cancer before he decided to change his eating/life habits. Perhaps he should have gone on the Budwig anti-cancer diet – which, by the way, is also primarily vegetarian AND no processed sugar (it includes healthy amounts of vegetables, fruit and some juices, kefir and lots of flaxseed oil). But by the time most people are diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, it has already rapidly spread to many parts of the body and may be too late to stop by any method.

    Dr. Ornish has been studying heart disease for decades so I will give much more credence to his take on a heart healthy diet than what some of the rest of you are suggesting. I don’t think anyone else posting here is a qualified medical doctor. As for those who try it and it doesn’t work for you, modify it or move on.

  • morgonobryon

    Only a neurotic would follow Dean Ornish recommendations, which is simply vegetarian, hardly original, it’s been around forever. Let’s have some fun. We live in Alaska, it’s 1901, we have long winters and short summers. It’s cold, really cold most of the year, unless, you eat fat, lots of fat, you’ll die. Dean Ornish comes to town. He has on 21 pairs of long johns, 16 sweaters, 14 pairs of pants, a Russian Mink head piece, a wool scarf, wool sox, insulated boots, ear muffs, a fur piece over his face and he speaks in muffled sounds. It’s ten below zero. He’s hungry and asks for an orange from a secretary. She, meanwhile has turned blue and she swears she’s dying. Meanwhile, he has fourteen pairs of gloves on and she is asked to peel the orange after having him repeat his request because his teeth are chattering so bad it sounds like someone hiting high notes on the piano. After fourteen hours she gets the orange peeled, but Dean has collapsed on the ground muttering something about tofu and beans. An Eskimo comes by and takes the wool covering off Dean’s face and shoves a large glob of whale blubber down Dean’s throat. There are gurgling sounds, but soon, Dean is sitting up, his cap is off, he’s laughing and that’s when Dean baby got his sanity and went from a neurotic MD to a beloved blubber eating, women chasing stud Doctor in Anchorage and the Eskimo who essentially save his life? That’s Sam and everywhere Dean goes to treat patients, Sam is there with whale blubber, boiled Salmon and even aged salmon, so tender, bones and all melt in one’s mouth and the energy derived has made Dean Ornish a warrior, a king, a magician and a lover. It doesn’t get any better than that.

    • Dave Asprey

      Lol – if only! ?

  • Lisa

    I listen to my body, not others. My body tells me to eat meat a few times a month, If I am not able to eat beef 1 week before my period is due – BEWARE!
    Rice and I do not see eye to eye every day. Potatoes are craved. Sometimes broccoli is also craved. Corn (on the cob) also. As well as carrots. All GOOD foods.
    Peoples – PLEASE listen to your bodies. Your body knows what it needs for optimal function.
    I’d rather listen and heed MY body than some crank aiming to make their 1st / next million by some fashionable diet.

  • bo

    Check it up Are Waerland.You have to get a balance between animal and vegitable oils of quality.Ovolactovegitarian food is so easy to balance everything.I do not beleave in this fat fish and shellfish bullshit but I think salmon is allright and cod roe is allright.In my country those who are abstain from meat,birdie nam nam,intestines,blood,liver and such food lives longer,healthier,and with lower risks for diseases.They eat more vegitables and fruits than the meateaters.If they don`t eat 500 grams of fruits ands vegitables how can they restore their health.You americans are fat,ugly,lazy and trying to teach the world live healthy with your stupid diets and junk food.You have nothing to teach us in Europe about health,You sit in your fucking cars all day polluting what people should breathe,then you sit in front of the TV watching your stupid shows eating junkfood.Have you heard about bicycles,walks,gardening, you don`t have to go to gym to live healthy.You deserve your early deaths.

  • Jeng

    It’s so sad about Steve Jobs. I question whether he ate that much fish and was a pescetarian. He ate a lot of fruit and was fruitarianish for many years. Everything I’ve read says he was mostly vegan with an emphasis on fruit (the mucousless diet thing). He was still consuming lots of juice (of course that means lots of fructose) when he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. I’m sure you know this info by now (Issacson’s book and other sources). All the juice and carbs taxing his pancreas and other organs for so many years including when he had life-threatening cancer.

    It’s sad how he got so into the vegetarian > vegan craze in the 70s and continued on with it very strongly. Also all the soy couldn’t have helped. But Steve Jobs was apparently very adamant about his diet too (and seemed to take it to an extreme with the idea that no animals food promoted health). Other than a small amount of fish, it sounds like he hadn’t had much quality fat or animal products for decades.

    I’m grateful to have started learning the truth about fat and health and vegetarian diets this past year. Starting with Dr. Mercola I’ve begun to learn so much more about all of this. The low-fat focus is still so embedded and ingrained though, but I’m grateful for the internet and so much more information that’s available now. Thanks also for your work.

    Steve Jobs also had painful kidney stones prior to his cancer, which I’ve read Colin Campbell, in the China Study, says are mostly caused by eating too much animal food. Sad.

  • Bardufoss84

    haha, wow

  • nianbo

    dr ornish i hate u i hate u and i HATE U u killed steve jobs u should go to prison and u also made up thatr lie that canola is healthier tha olive oil

  • Nina

    My sister is a doctor and she went around Nepal, from village to village and monastery to monastery. She loved it there, but did say many monks in the monasteries have health problems due to diets too rich in butter and salt

    • Laurie

      How do you know what it is due to? Can I see your evidence?

  • Monika

    Both meat eaters and vegetarians die … No one ever said being vegetarian or vegan will make a person immortal … but meat eaters die younger and endure long standing illnesses until death, the final act of nature’s recycling dead matter occurs. A sentient being shouldn’t die so that you can stuff it’s flesh into your mouth. but their untimely death happens because of wrong beliefs based on propaganda … not fact … nor health … It’s wrong for you to project lies to justify what you want to believe. 5 months ago, I stopped eating dairy (gave up meat long ago) and it’s amazing how great my body and mind feels without all those hormones, puss, and whatever else is in “milk” …

  • Monika

    Read (or watch) THE CHINA STUDY …

  • Sense not sensibility

    Pretty much all the ornish studies seem to be contradicted by population based results on France. Heart disease in France is lower than Japan, in fact second lowest in the world (WHO stats). I challenge anyone to find many vegetarians there. Then if you go to Gascony in France where they eat loads of duck and produce foie gras their CHD rate is half of France. Plus studies on longevity have found almost without exception centenarians are meat eating.

  • Bill

    Interesting conversation! I just wrote a blog article that includes some research about vegetarian/vegan diets and cancer rates.

    http://alreadyliving.com/2013/06/01/steve-jobs-vegans-and-pancreatic-cancer/

  • NotAVegan

    Not that your concerns aren’t warranted, but tackling factory farming( and big agra) is probably a much more effective place to start, rather than telling vegans to stop what they are doing. ( I am aware you already do this, but it’s probably a better place to focus your bulletproof energy. I just seem to notice you obsess about having to go against your old ideals of vegetarianism and worry other people do too, more than what I feel is the bigger root of the problem: the existence of grain fed livestock. ) Vegans are still in the minority of people. The majority of people are supporting the continuation of the unreasonable amount of production of grain-fed animals and non-organic food. That is much scarier to me than vegans being slow. I mean really vegans, while they might sometimes perform worse(since most don’t know what they are doing), if they eat mostly organic, they will not be bulletproof but they are taking a big entropy raising bullet for majority of people who eat all the rbst and grain fed meat, and support those companies. I mean it might be more suited to their goals for them to support only grass-fed and organic food, but I think it is better than supporting the current norm.

    Plus like you already have said, raw low mold veganism is better than eating grain fed meat. I haven’t met a vegan who doesn’t perform better mentally and physically then any person with a standard american diet, even a “healthy one” with lots of saturated fats and fish. Those are not as good, because the animals are grain-fed, proteins are de-natured, and they often eat cheese and plenty of non organic foods, and standard vegetable oils. I have met some 30 year plus vegans who are sharper and healthier than many of my paleo buddies, but I still haven’t found their secret, and personally feel they have deficiencies. They are smart people, and I think if you came at it from the perspective I suggested, they would be more receptive. Your perspective is more humane after all( well at least by mine and probably many other people standards.)

    tl;dr So basically, if I had one wish it would be for you to focus your useful perspectives more on getting people who eat meat to eat only grass fed meat, getting more people concerned about mold in agriculture, etc, and less about getting vegans to start eating meat. I feel as though they aren’t hurting your cause as much as the former group. I could be wrong, but I think speaking to the masses(grain-fed meat eaters) is more important, and it is a good way to spread the word to the other extreme minority (vegans).

    • NotAVegan

      Ah I left off high fat, low-carb, and less protien than standard american diet when I said things more people need to know about. Which is probably more important than some of the other things I mentioned. Oh well, I am sure anyone who reads that will get the point that I am referring to the bulletproof like diets.

    • Paleo Huntress

      “I haven’t met a vegan who doesn’t perform better mentally and physically then any person with a standard american diet, even a “healthy one” with lots of saturated fats and fish.

      I gained 65lbs, developed type II diabetes and hypertentension and my cholesterol rose to over 300 as a whole-food vegan. It’s nice to meet you.

      Now you have. =)

  • cristine

    please read and study more. Hospitals are filled with people who are NOT vegan or vegetarians. Cancer is a multiple factor story. And a huge business . Read and study more

    • matthk

      Agreed. They’re also LESS filled with people who eat a paleo/primal/ancestral diet of real food.

  • Raj K

    Mcdougall says that high levels of fat are responsible for elevated blood sugar because insulin is unable to transport sugar from the blood to the cell. Also I have personally seen people reverse cancer on both a fruit based or low glycemic raw vegan diet.

    • http://is.gd/paleo Edward

      #facepalm

    • matthk

      How so? This doesn’t make sense. Fruit IS sugar – effectively – and spikes insulin and raises blood glucose far more effectively than anything else. And all oncologist know that most cancer cells THRIVE on carbohydrates, while ketosis helps us thrive while starving the cancer cells. Logic suggests a fruit-based diet will speed the growth of cancer.

  • Patricia P. Tursi

    Very interesting! Weston Price’s research is appropriate. Dr. Ornish has done a tremendous amount of good by challenging the “it’s all in your genes” message from Allopathic Medicine. However, I sure differ from Dr. Ornish on this one. As Dr. Mercola advocates, it depends a lot on your physical makeup and what might be good for one person, might do in another. I am 77…gave up meat in the seventies because I didn’t want to kill. Then discovered that you have to kill plants to eat them, and I love plants. It’s all a matter of reverence. Eating grain-fed meats, and eating grains, are not good for me, that I am sure of. See Dr. Gilbert Ling, and Dr. Raymond Peat…saturated fat is good if the right kind.

    • matthk

      Well said! But – on the subject of ‘killing’ don’t forget, the consumption of mono-crops kills FAR more animals than eating grass/pasture raised animals and vegies.

  • ella

    After suffering from chronic fatigue and depression for decades I’m researching food intolerances etc. I’ve come to the conclusion that grains, gluten and dairy are definitely not good things to eat. However, for many people who are just starting out on the quest to educate themselves about the link between diet and health, the internet poses a huge problem in trying to find accurate, definitive information. So much information varies and is sometimes conflicting. To those less skeptical it can be so easy to be persuaded to go down one path or another.

  • Matthew Cook

    This is the worst piece of unfounded rubbish on the Internet. Absolute fiction.

  • Jennalynn

    What dietary supplements and books is this mouth selling? Some of what you say is proven, but other parts have no respectable peer reviewed science behind them. Rah for your opinions. I still ask, how are you making money off the diet you advocate? Bet you make a living selling something related (or speaking about it!)

    Folks, the physicians of PRMI have your interest at heart, not this unschooled pitchman. Check out PRMI – a not-for-profit selling no supplements, only science-supported preventative medicine to keep you out of all doctor’s offices.

  • Fernando

    Hahaha ‘vegetarian cancer’! You are so delusional. Steve Jobs still lived this long BECAUSE of the Ornish diet. But hey, grab some spareribs, I’ll talk to you when you prematurely will die because of eating meat and fish and eggs and diary. I’ll be out there living far longer enjoying another 20 years beyond your death.

    • matthk

      The facts suggest the opposite. Populations in ‘traditional vegetarian’ nations have a much shorter life expectancy than their omnivorous animal/fish-eating equivalents.

  • Lisa Flood

    You sound like a quack. Don’t make people sick with your advice.

    For dietary fat info see the Mayo Clinic: http://mayoclinic.com/health/fat/NU00262.

    For mortality rates of vegetarians see:
    The US National Library of Medicine Institutes of Health:

    http://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10555529.

    For info on the (20) compounds found in cooked meats that cause cancer which are known as Heterocyclic Amines:

    see Wikipedia ;
    See also: http://www.nutritionfacts.org.

  • Lisa Flood

    From the US Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health: http://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10555529

  • Lisa Flood

    From the Mayo Clinic on Dietary Fats: http://mayoclinic.com/health/fat/NU00262

  • Mel

    The debate between vegetarians or vegans and paleo adherents that is evident in this commentary seems to come up every time someone writes an article touting the benefits of one approach or the other. How is it that the writers all have access to the same research but are drawing very different conclusions? No wonder people are so damn confused about diet and nutrition. We can’t ignore the possibility that confirmation bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) is at play here. That is, once people commit to a particular eating philosophy, it seems that they will do everything in their power to defend it, even if they are presented with evidence that contradicts it. I follow the paleo diet, so the info I read tends to portray it as the “best” diet for optimal health. However, my vegan cousin and I recently had a debate in which he was able to cite research showing that not eating meat is better for us. Diet is like political views in its ability to stir up contention between people who subscribe to certain ways of eating. I find this highly frustrating, as it calls into question who is really right in all of this. Until we can remove the moral element of diet (i.e., killing animals for food), it will be extremely difficult to arrive at consensus about what we should and shouldn’t be eating for optimal health. Thoughts?

    • matthk

      All diet options mean “killing animals for food” – veganism/vegetarianism kills more animals though its support of mono-crops than a decent Paleo/Primal diet ever could. But either way, animals will die – or worse, cease to exist.

  • ????

    Wow, 195 posts from passionate people on both sides of the fence! Awesome! All I can say is, this is exactly the kind of debate we need. Keep it up, folks! Now I’m gonna go have a grass-fed steak and some pastured eggs. I may even meditate. Nah, I’ll probably just go lift something heavy – which is pretty much a form of meditation for me so…. 😀

  • marilyn

    OMG i’m just gonna eat the fats and stuff and take my chances I’m 47 and pretty healthy.. Sad a man with so much knowledge and be so stupid at the same time. Should of got more info before going that way :(

  • AlOliver

    So finding a peer reviewed article on the web is as rare as finding a notable physician in the Bowery? We can only find them in a university’s database, right there alongside the Ornish material? Those are just beyond belief ridiculous statements. Jesus Christ.

  • Roger Tober

    “Simply put, we have genetic evidence that 70% of people are intolerant to gluten.”

    This makes your article sound completely rediculous:

    “According to Dr. Fasano, gluten sensitivity potentially affects far more people than celiac disease. He estimates about 6% to 7% of the U.S. population may be gluten-sensitive, meaning some 20 million people in the United States alone could have the condition.”

    Percentage of patients deceased five years after diagnosis: # Pancreatic cancer – 97% # Liver cancer – 95% #”

    The longest lived group of people in America are a group of seventh day adventists that are vegetarian.

    A study done on people over 70 that studied people of 5 different countries including japan and some scandinavian countries concluded the only dietary relationship was people that ate legumes. The more they ate, the longer they lived.

  • Needs Citations

    You make a lot of claims yet you fail to cite any valid, peer reviewed, scientific studies to back up your claims. I don’t know how people can read all this drivel without being alarmed by the lack of citations. If your going to make a claim, please do us all a favour, back it up.

  • Capt.James Tea Cook?

    Shame you don’t post any links to any major studies that can support your points – for facts on a sustainable diet see http://www.london.vegfest.co.uk

  • d1stewart

    There are two fats you need. Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty acids. These are called “essential fats.” They are called “essential fats” because the body cannot synthesize them by itself from the foods we consume. The amount humans need is very little–less than 5 percent of your caloric consumption, and less than 7 grams between the fatty acids in daily consumption of 2000 calories. This amount of fat will also be more than sufficient for absorption of vitamins in foods, too. That’s why it’s “essential” but not a large amount.

    That’s it. All your statements about needs for fat are completely unsupported and have no science backing them. This statement is the most ridiculous: “On a low fat diet, your body is tricked into believing you are experiencing a famine, even if you use bizarre tricks (like eating sawdust or other fiber supplements) to make your stomach feel full.” Actually, that is a description of ketosis–a famine state induced not by a low-fat diet, but by a high-fat, high-protein diet lacking in carbohydrates.

    Ornish does not recommend eating fish because there might be some healthy saturated fat in it. Ornish does not recommend any intake of saturated fat. The human body has no need to take in any saturated fat at all–it is not an essential nutrient.

    You refer in this headline to “vegetarian cancer.” There is no such thing. You note that Jobs ate fish. That is not vegetarian. You say that he was following Dean Ornish’s cancer diet. There is no Dean Ornish cancer diet, and your source material for that certainly doesn’t say there is or even that he was following anything Ornish said about diet. (Does the “Ornish cancer diet” require food cooked without pans? No, the nonexistent Ornish cancer diet doesn’t, nor does any other recommendation Ornish has ever made.) Jobs’ cancer was advanced when it was detected, and was already spread through his body. A vegetarian diet had nothing to do with it–unless it extended his life beyond what it would have been had he consumed, for example, the diet you consume. You are eating a cancer-promoting diet, and you have the nerve to publish a multiple smear piece about a fantasized “vegetarian cancer.” This article is pure garbage.

  • SenatorCletusSoffpossum

    You are obviously a salesman and not a scientist or big data guy. Where are your sources? A real executive wants real data not just anecdotal evidence. I personally have never heard of Dr. Ornish’s diet but after going plant strong (aka vegan without the attitude or the tofurkey) for the past year I feel more energized and clear headed than I ever was when I was eating meat, cheese and dairy every day. And I bought all of the expensive, grass fed, hormone free, local meat, milk, cheese and eggs. My skin has cleared up, my cholesterol is lower, my grocery and supplement bill is lower, I need less sleep, I no longer have any indigestion or phlegm in the back of my throat after a meal, and frankly I have way less gas than I ever had before. I’d say easily 70% of my calories come from carbs (including those evil whole grains you speak of) and I don’t have yeast overgrowth, mood swings or hormonal disorders and my wife doesn’t have any PMS much less bad PMS. Oh yeah and I lost 10 lbs and my wife has lost 15. I would agree with you that vegans who eat nothing but soy products probably aren’t doing themselves any favors and may as well just eat meat. Some people, probably a decent percentage, truly need meat and animal products for their health. Perhaps you are one of them, but for the average American eating nothing but meat, cheese and processed food your conclusions in this article are pretty weak at best and just plain made up garbage at worst. I’ll make sure to never stumble upon your site again.

    • matthk

      Not a big-data guy? Where do you get this? Dave Asprey is WORLD FAMOUS for being all about the data and crunching the hell out of it! Read Dave’s site and look him up before you make silly statements. he’s all about peer-reviewed science and solid data!

      PS: Food doesn’t create phlegm. It’s such a myth that even GPs here in Australia have posters about it in their waiting rooms.

      PPS: “eating nothing but meat, cheese and processed food” Where does Dave push this angle? His diet is akin to the Paleo/Primal diet, which is NOT ‘all meat’ as the ignorant claim. In fact, anyone eating Paleo/Primal will eat far more vegetables than they would on a vegan diet as most vegans and vegetarians ‘bulk up’ their meals with disruptive, pro-inflammatory fillers such as grains, soy products and legumes.

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  • Eric

    I’m calling bullcrap on this article. Mainstream science and the best research is all against you:

    1. Dr. Colin Cambell, of Cornell, published a 30 year study and wrote it up in relation to cancer, called “The China Study”.

    2. Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn did an excellent longitudinal study spanning 20 years relating to an entirely plant based diet and reversal of heart disease.

    These two studies were done very well, have not since refuted, and have gained wide acceptance by mainstream medicine. Also, here at MD Anderson, premier cancer institution out of Houston, Texas, we now see the active promotion of protocols with juicing fresh vegetables. Turns out Gerson therapy worked, and it was 100% vegan as well.

    All of these guys are pushing for 100% vegan and no one is calling them quacks at places like Mayo or MD Anderson. Prince Charles of Whales showed support for the Gerson institute and Bill Clinton went vegan to succssfully reverse his heart disease. But I guess you know better than such people and if only Steve Jobs had your intelligence and resources, he could have made better decisions. Again, I call bullcrap. Stop spreading misinformation.

    • Paleo Huntress

      Would you please share citation to the the peer reviewed publication of Campbell’s 30 study called The China Study in a respected medical journal? You can go to PubMed and do a search just like you’d do in Google. Then come back here and share the citation for this mythical thing.

    • matthk

      Eric, the only diet that has been SHOWN to fight cancer is a ketogenic one. Yep, lots of saturated fat. And of course you quote the woeful agenda-riddled China Study, debunked by MANY, including an ex vegan/raw vegan/raw omnivore:
      http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

  • Stephen Lucker Kelly

    Please look up Dr. John Mcdougall’s views on why Steve Jobs died. This is shit. All based on opinion and no real science.

  • DrWalsh

    Dr McDougall argues (I think convincingly) that the cancer must have been present for many years before Jobs died; initiation occurred at a young age when he was exposed to carcinogens in electronic components; and Jobs lived for longer than most people would expect after a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer, which notoriously has a very poor prognosis.

  • Pingback: Dean Ornish, M.D.: Eat more, weigh less | healthcare()

  • Marda DeWet

    Bill Clinton is one of the smartest men on the planet. He is looking better than ever since he changes his diet to vega. You sound like a really angry and jealous person who really wants to slam Dr Ornish because his work is(a) well researched and has been proven in the field. There are so many websites and places to find peer reviewed articles – if you stay so uptight and insensed because Dr Ornish has all the credibility with a patient like Bill Clinton listening to him, you are going to give yourself a coronary, regardless of what you eat. Envy will kill you every time.

    • Real World Vegan

      Clinton isnt vegan, he admits to eating salmon and eggs on a weekly basis- last time I checked, that would make him ovo-pesca-vegetarian. that is why he looks good, he eats a whole food diet with lots of veggies and a few servings of animal food each week. i guess that’s what really smart men do.

      warren buffet eats meat too. i hear he’s also really smart.

  • Real World Vegan

    i subscribe to the medical journals online through my old uni. i see all of the peer-reviewed articles on the net and most have abstracts available to anyone whos interested in looking them up at pubmed.

  • dddd

    vegan is about compassion for suffering of animals it is not a diet!

    • Paleo Huntress

      There is a diabetes diet, even though diabetes is more than a diet. There is an American Heart Association diet, even though heart disease is more than a diet. There is a paleo/primal diet even though paleo/primal is more than a diet. Vegan isn’t a special snowflake, there is most definitely a vegan DIET too.

    • matthk

      Veganism is a fashion statement that BEGAN with the best intentions. Read Lierre Keith and then go out and look at the evidence. A vegan diet (which I was on for a while for the same flawed reasons) will destroy more life – and more pointlessly – than a paleo diet. (plus you’ll eat more vegetables on a Paleo diet 😉 )

  • John

    agreed check out nutritionfacts.org

  • John

    Dean Ornish vs Some guy no one listens to. Winner Dean Ornish.

  • John

    Never trust a guy who sells products and I’m not talking about Dr. Dean Ornish, I’m talking about the writer of this article and also visit 30bananasaday.com

    • Real World Vegan

      you just posted a link to Greger’s site a few comments back. this is a link to his ‘products for sale’ page. i dont trust him either. http://www.drgreger.org/DVDs/index.html

      he also charges a significant fee when he speaks.

      • matthk

        Greger is an Ornish acolyte. He’s an information-dodging dimwit who’s in it for the money.

    • matthk

      Ornish sells a LOT more ‘products’ than Dave. And 30bananas? REALLY? DuranRider is the poster boy for lunatic fringe! He’s about as scientific as a a unicorn. Watch his videos. Surely nobody wants to be like this bitter, snarkey, weasly little man.

  • grace lol

    Jobs changed his diet when he was 50 yrs old. And for him to change his ditet abruptly was not good. His body needs to adjust slowly, and probably not eliminating meat at all esp fish. No diet is perfect. You must use your instinct when it comes to your body. I still believe anything in moderation including 3x a week exercise is still the best.

  • Rosemary Guy

    Dean ornish’s opinions are based on science and these are just misleading. there is a growing body of evidence supporting a plant based diet for virtually all of the major causes of death in western countries. If you publish an opinion that is wrong don’t people who follow you have a greater chance of dieing?

    • matthk

      Jobs didn’t live a long time with cancer, it KILLED him. As it killed my mother and father. Cancer cells (most) thrive on carbohydrates, while a fat-rich ketogenic diet fuels us wonderfully and starves cancer cells (most – not all). He COULD have beaten it. And I blame Ornish for his death.

      There is not a ‘growing body of evidence’ at all ‘supporting a plant based diet for virtually all of the major causes of death in western countries’. It’s shrinking day by day as people and scientists realise how Ancel Keys pushed the US (and then the rest of the world) over the precipice and into the hole we’re in now. The evidence that’s ‘growing’ is in support of saturated fat, grass-fed/pastured animal protein, and against grains, soy and legumes.

      The China Study has been debunked as has Keys. Both were frauds with a vegetarian agenda they ‘needed’ to prove, so they fiddled the books instead of looking at the evidence alone.

      Of course a vegie/vegan diet is better than the Standard American Diet, but it’s still incredibly sub-optimal (and has its own dangers) compared to a real-food diet along the Primal/Ancestral/Paleo lines. Plus a good Paleo diet means far LESS animal death than a vegan diet that includes grains and monocrops (and it contains more vegetables than most vegan diets too!)

      • Rosemary Guy

        We all die and we all didn’t evolve from tigers. The studies by campbell used proteins from grass fed animals. Where has the china study been debunked?….only by people without a degree in statistics or nutrition and not in peer reviewed journals. http://nutritionfacts.org/video/convergence-of-evidence/

        • Paleo Huntress

          The studies from Campbell used isolated casein from conventional dairy. FWIW, there was no scientific publication that would agree to publish the China study.

        • matthk

          BRILLIANT! This needs to be the first sentence in EVERY reply to Campbell-apologists :-)

          “…there was no scientific publication that would agree to publish the China study…”

        • Paleo Huntress

          He also found that plant proteins only reduced cancer when fed in isolation. When they were eaten as part of a mixed diet where the missing aminos are filled in, they were worse than the casein, with wheat being the worst of all.

        • Rosemary Guy

          i think that Dr Campbell reply to this was that he used multivariate analysis making this correlation insignificant….wheat correlated with areas where the diet was more meat based. he also said that although the book was called the China study, it was the weight of all the evidence that led to the conclusion about animal based foods being related to disease and not one correlation. As someone wh o is fortunate enough to live in a country with grass fed beef (new zealand), I don’t like what this type of farming is doing to the environment and the growing levels of pollution of the waterways. You eat the planit and have it too.

        • Rosemary Guy

          Dr Campbell used multivariate analysis instead of just looking at one correlation which was linked with meat eating. He came to his conclusions based on a whole body of evidence and not just the China Study or one correlation. Living in New Zealand which has grain fed beef, I don’t like the pollution that even this farming creates for both the water and the air . We can’t have a planit and eat it too. http://nutritionfacts.org/video/whole-grains-may-work-as-well-as-drugs/

        • matthk

          New Zealand beef, like Australian beef, is MOSTLY grass-fed (yes, some of it is ‘grain finished’). I for one buy ONLY grass fed, which you can get cheaply from Aldi if, like me, you’re not loaded. Neither of our nations have the horrific, massive, cradle-to-grave feedlots that exist in the USA as our nations are far better for cattle and dairy rearing. Australia with its vast outback grass lands that can’t be used for farming and NZ with it’s almost Irish levels of quickly replenished green-as-an-emerald grass – which is why your dairy is so good, so tasty and in such demand.

          Monocrops (grains etc.) are far more destructive to the planet than pastured animals AND they’re far less healthy for us. If you REALLY cared about the planet, you’d never eat another grain or soy product again. Continuing to do so makes you a hypocrite and an active supporter of environmental criminals.

        • Rosemary Guy

          most of the soy grown in the world is fed to animals and there is no country of origin labels on beef sold in nz…….

        • Paleo Huntress

          MOST cattle in the WORLD are pasture-fed until the last few months of their lives and are not fed grain from “cradle”.

          However, it’s pretty straightforward to buy beef from the rancher. Then you know it’s country of origin. =)

        • Rosemary Guy

          I live in New Zealand where the water quality is being wrecked from grain fed beef. There are 80 billion animals killed in the world every year and they need to eat something and drink something. When there is research showing the reversal of heart disease and lots of other things then I’ll start eating algae like a fish. however I would get board with that.

        • matthk

          Tigers? Where did I mention tigers?
          Are you saying that because our tree-dwelling ancestors were mostly vegetarian that we are too? This is an idiotic assumption I’m afraid. If you go far enough back in the evolution of tigers you’ll find some of their ancestors to be vegetarian too. Then of course you can go all the way back to when we were all fish and you can say, “Oh no, we’re carnivores because our fishy ancestors were carnivores!” Or even sillier, make the leap that we’re all supposed to live on micro-organisms because our way-way-back ancestors did so.

          Now, onto debunking the China Study.
          ———————————————–
          You wrote: “…Where has the china study been debunked?….only by people without a
          degree in statistics or nutrition and not in peer reviewed journals…”

          Well how does a PhD in Nutritional Sciences sound?
          http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

          Other experts with advanced qualifications in organic chemistry, microbiology and nutrition such as Mat Lalonde, Mark Sisson, Robb Wolfe et al have also debunked the hell out of this biased and potentially dangerous study.

          nutritionfacts.org is a bullshit site, well known for it’s nonsense (even among sensible vegans and vegetarians). Do some better research Rosemary as anything posted from nutritionfacts will be ignored by anyone with a functional and discerning brain. You might as well post links from the plethora of ‘Jews are alien-lizard-people out to destroy us’ conspiracy sites.

          Campbell seems to have done VERY LITTLE in the way of multivariate analysis. As one post said on:
          http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
          “…Interesting to see that Campbell’s own published work seems to rely on nothing but univariate correlations. At one point, he says, “based on
          an overview of the univariate correlations, colon and rectal cancer mortality rates were consistently inversely correlated with all fiber and complex carbohydrate fractions except for pectin.” He never
          mentions any terms or concepts (such as“regression” or “multivariate”) anywhere else that suggest anything other than univariate correlations…”

  • dogmum

    Love this article, all that I have read for many years about health, nutrition and the human body support what is written here in addition to my personal beliefs. Vegetarian diets don’t provide our bodies with the essential nutrients we need

    . A diet high in carbs and sugar will stress and overwhelm the body’s natural homeostasis. Hormones (phytoestrogens) in soy based foods will also increase one’s risk for cancer. Today we do overeat and consume far too many processed foods, do yourself a favour shop in the outer aisle perimeter of the grocery store and stay away from the middle aisles (where all of the boxed, processed and canned foods sit). Eat fresh food in it’s most natural unprocessed form and eat meats from animals who are treated humanely.

  • dietproof

    Lots of hostility in the tone of your note here. You are very simplistic in mind and spirit. If you want to summarize eating meat to the skin of a yak on a pole in some temple in the Himalayas you certainly should contemplate the IQ your diet is allowing. Today in America we are able to choose whatever food we want to eat. Carrying a 60 lb burlap bag of black beans up to 15,000 feet would burn more calories than any monk can afford to spend. Of course in this particular case eating an animal that can walk up to the temple makes more sense. Steve Jobs was sick and the sickness he had was invasive and terminal. I don’t know of any diet that could have saved him beef or plant. The key is not to get sick because once you trip the wire you are at the mercy of the cancer. Since you are quite an adventurous high altitude traveler you might think twice before you drive a truck up to the Buddhist temple you went to if it had a blown head gasket and had smoke shooting our from the exhaust pipe. However if your engine was in perfect shape you could obviously take on the climb and get there to do your three month immersion into achieving zen. So once it is broken you are in a different spot. For those that are healthy the choices are personal and it is not a competition meat eaters against vegans. Eat what you want and enjoy it, if you get to 300 lbs then you will probably notice that you are not going to be surfing or hanging 10 from a pull up bar from your toes. Today we have choices in America and there are some better than others without being an extremist one way or another. After all if you make a global determination that Dean Ornish somehow recommended a defective diet to Steve Jobs you neglected to mention that the same recommendations he made to Bill Clinton have kept him alive and kicking it up at his daughters wedding with Hillary Clinton. beegreenworld.com

    • matthk

      Justifying Ornish’s science-devoid, money-grubbing snake-oil diet by saying “Look at Clinton! He’s alive and he eats tofu!” is as baseless as pointing to 90 year-olds who’ve smoked and eaten processed junk their whole lives and saying” Hey Marlboros and TV dinners are the fountain of youth!”

      As for your point: “…Carrying a 60 lb burlap bag of black beans up to 15,000 feet would burn more calories than any monk can afford to spend…” well, perhaps. But if the black beans were important, they’d use the yak to transport them instead of eating him/her.

      Please do yourself a favour and read the rest of this blog, then these things (as a start), and with a little luck and a TRULY open mind, you’ll wake up and live well:
      ———————————————————–
      The Vegetarian Myth – Lierre Keith (a gentle ex-vegan (20yrs))
      http://www.lierrekeith.com/book-ex_the-vegetarian-myth.php

      The Paleo Solution – Robb Wolf (full of great science with more references than you could poke a stick at).
      http://robbwolf.com/shop/products/the-paleo-solution-the-original-human-diet/

      And finally, the woeful China Study, debunked by an ex vegan/raw vegan/raw omnivore:
      http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

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  • Dani

    There will always be people on both sides of the fence, but I thought I would just give my opinion. I have had a rather unhealthy lifestyle for most of my life. I had my gall bladder removed in 1986, and here it is 2013. I have had some horrible pain in my abdomen, went to the doctor, got all kinds of tests, and it turned out my pancreas was inflamed. The pain was excruciating. Through my own calculations as to what made it worse or better, I found out that Dr. Ornish’s Spectrum diet was perfect for me. My pancreas is back to normal, and now that I am eating a very low fat diet, I feel much better. This is my experience only, I would rather die from not eating enough fat than die of the horrible pain in my abdomen.

  • matthk

    Typo alert? You say the Ornish diet is “… is almost a mirror image of the Bulletproof Diet”. I think you mean “is almost a mirror OPPOSITE” as ‘Mirror image’ (stupidly) means they’re exactly the same. 😉

  • April Peter

    Thank you for this.

  • MrPestus

    Equating a whole grain diet to eating nothing but gluten is misleading and erroneous. Why would you orient this information so it sounds like all grains contain this protein?

    • Paleo Huntress

      Check out this article- it isn’t from a scientific journal, and as such isn’t especially comprehensive, but I found it interesting nonetheless.

      What! There’s No Such Thing As A Gluten Free Grain?

      “[W]hat we now know from modern studies is that “gluten” is actually a mixture of proteins found in ALL grains. It is composed of two primary ‘subfractions’ known as Prolamines and Glutelins.”

      “The prolamine known as “gliadin” is the most studied in medical literature; primarily as it relates to Celiac Disease. Many people, including doctors, do not understand that the prolamine, “gliadin” is not the ONLY type of gluten out there, nor is it the ONLY one reeking havoc in peoples bodies. It is, however, the ONLY one that is routinely tested for– recent studies have identified least 400 other gluten proteins.”

      Grain (Prolamine) % Total Protein

      Wheat (Gliadin) 69
      Rye (Secalinin) 30-50
      Oats (Avenin) 16
      Barley (Hordein) 46-52
      Millet (Panicin) 40
      Corn (Zien) 55
      Rice (Orzeni5) 5
      Sorgum Kafirin 52

      “[S]ince someone suffering from a “gluten allergy” (intolerance or sensitivity) may have issues with one or MORE types of gluten proteins, we really need to expand our understanding of the ‘gluten issue’ all together. According to Dr. Peter Osborne (gluten specialist), a gluten allergy/intolerance, IS the cause of Celiac Disease but it is NOT Celiac Disease itself. As a matter of fact, Celiac Disease is not even the most common problem to arise from a gluten allergy/intolerance.”

  • Zhang Yong Cheng

    Tibet was still in the caveman period when China was highly advanced in philosophy and morality. This was why when Tibet received the gracious teachings of the Buddha, they totally defiled it at its most fundamental core, ie – unconditional compassion. They made such a mistake by giving all kinds of reasons and excuses for murdering animals and forcefully robbing their flesh and thinking it is still in line with Buddhism’s unconditional compassion. This is a fatal mistake. And unfortunately, for most Western person who has been addicted to animal flesh in large amount in their diet, this is exactly a perfect excuse to practice Buddhism whilst able to have the “right” given by Tibetan monks’ flawed excuse for their own flesh addiction. Their excuse is that vegetables don’t grow well in Tibet’s cold climate. That is only partly true. A lot of highly nutrient-rich vegetables prefer cold and even icy conditions – such as kales, broccoli, watercress etc to name a few. If they can grow rice and wheat there, why can’t they grow vegetables? Poor excuses that those Western disciples would not want to question too deep into it lest there’ll be excuses for them to practice Buddhism without going vegan. In Buddhist scriptures, there are numerous examples of Buddhist monks ending up in Avici Hell. This is because they have led the mass to walk the wrong path – the path towards more bad karma and sufferings. This is the last period of Buddhism as the Buddha has predicted and in this period it is said that most monks will teach falsehoods and defile the true compassionate teachings of the Buddha. These meat-eating Tibetan monks and others from the Theravada and hinayana have all defiled the most fundamental teachings of the Buddha. And so, due to the stupidity of the people in this era, as predicted by Buddha, most are attracted to these meat-eating monks, thinking that they have the best of both worlds. That is, to practice unconditional compassion whilst allowed to forcefully rob the lives and flesh of other sentient beings, separating their mothers, children and mates. Let anyone who has any bit of wisdom left in him or her, see the contradiction in such blasphemous practice of Buddhism. NAMO AMITOFO.

    • Paleo Huntress

      Bwah ha ha ha hah! “Animal flesh addiction” Hee Hee… Oh the ridiculousness of the religious dietary zealot.

    • http://www.youtube.com/superheroenthusiast SuperheroEnthusiast

      Gautama Buddha himself ate meat. He died from eating trichinosis infected pork when he was in his 80s.

      The adoption of vegetarianism in Buddhism comes from cross-pollination while still in India with Jainism and certain strains of Vedic-Brahmanical (Proto-Hindu) thought. It’s not something the Buddha ever taught or practiced himself. He taught The Middle Way: a path of common sense away from silly extremes.

      It’s clear you’re a cultural Chinese Mahayana Buddhist zealot with a hard-on for hating Tibetans (racist much?). Learn to see past your own dogma: If you’re going to rant about people “corrupting” the Buddha’s teachings I suggest you study the origins of Mahayana… teachings supposedly left in the realm of talking serpents for protection (excuse me while I LOL)… The Buddha definitely didn’t teach any of that stuff, it’s a much later development and your extremism is an insult to him and those of us who actually do practice Buddhadharma.

  • Zhang Yong Cheng

    Tibet was still in the very primitive period when China was

    highly advanced in philosophy and morality. This was why

    when Tibet received the gracious teachings of the Buddha,

    they totally defiled it at its most fundamental core, ie –

    unconditional compassion. They made such a mistake by giving

    all kinds of reasons and excuses for murdering animals and

    forcefully robbing their flesh and thinking it is still in

    line with Buddhism’s unconditional compassion. This is a

    fatal mistake. And unfortunately, for most Western person

    who has been addicted to animal flesh in large amount in

    their diet, this is exactly a perfect excuse to practice

    Buddhism whilst able to have the “right” given by Tibetan

    monks’ flawed excuse for their own flesh addiction. Their

    excuse is that vegetables don’t grow well in Tibet’s cold

    climate. That is only partly true. A lot of highly

    nutrient-rich vegetables prefer cold and even icy conditions

    – such as kales, broccoli, watercress etc to name a few. If

    they can grow rice and wheat there, why can’t they grow

    vegetables? Poor excuses that those Western disciples would

    not want to question too deep into it lest there’ll be no

    more excuses for them to practice Buddhism without going

    vegan. In Buddhist scriptures, there are numerous examples

    of Buddhist monks ending up in Avici Hell. This is because

    they have led the mass to walk the wrong path – the path

    towards more bad karma and sufferings. This is the third

    period (last period) of Buddhism as the Buddha has predicted

    and in this period it is said that most monks will teach

    falsehoods and defile the true compassionate teachings of

    the Buddha. These meat-eating Tibetan monks and others from

    the Theravada and hinayana have all defiled the most

    fundamental teachings of the Buddha. And so, due to the

    stupidity of the people in this era, as predicted by Buddha,

    most are attracted to these meat-eating monks, thinking that

    they have the best of both worlds. That is, to practice

    unconditional compassion whilst allowed to forcefully rob

    the lives and flesh of other sentient beings, separating

    their mothers, children and mates. Let anyone who has any

    bit of wisdom left in him or her, see the contradiction in

    such blasphemous practice of Buddhism. NAMO AMITOFO.

  • Mark Lovendale

    The mistaken beliefs about dietary fat are legendary. The body makes all the fat it needs from blood glucose, except for two
    essential fats, alpha-linolenic acid (an omega-3 fatty acid) and linoleic
    acid (an omega-6 fatty acid). An artificial diet made up of Vivonex
    100 that has 1% fat from safflower oil provides all of these essential
    fats that are needed. (See page 201 in Quality Longevity.)
    The Ornish 10% fat diet, that was first used by Nathan Pritikin, is the only
    diet that has been proven to reverse plaques from the arteries and
    prevent 15 types of cancer. (See pages 190 and 191 in Quality Longevity and the definitive study of diet and cancer by Ken Carroll, PhD, at http://PreventiveCare.com.) Mark Lovendale, Author of Quality Longevity

  • QuentonQuale

    The research of Weston Price and Francis Pottenger showed that traditional diets of many different cultures survived very well on diets that contained animal flesh and animal fats. Can you imagine Inuits not consuming large amounts of very fatty walrus, seal meat to survive in their cold climate? Western foods (high carb) have crept into native cultures and the result has been an increase in obesity, modern diseases, poor dental growth, etc.

  • Med2go

    I am a medical scientist specialising in oncology. I also eat both vegetable and animal based foods.
    I take issue with the statement that cancer cells possess more insulin receptors than normal cells.

    Firstly, there is no such thing as a generalised “cancer cell”; all cancers are different from a cytological and genetic perspective. Cancer is an umbrella term given to a group of diseases.
    Different cancers vary widely in how they are expressed and develop, this means that no two “cancers” can be treated in the same manor nor can they definitively share the same cause.

    Secondly, “cancer cells” do not have greater numbers of insulin receptors. And even if some did, not all “cancers” would share this feature due to the fact that there are many different types of cancer.
    For example, prostate cancer possesses a greater number of choline receptors than other cancers, in the lab we use choline to identify dysplasic cells (cancer cells) in the prostate. This is because they absorb more choline than the surrounding cells. As a matter of fact, the most concentrated sources of choline in the human diet are eggs and poultry. By extrapolation and by controlled investigation, eggs and poultry are a risk factor for developing prostate cancer. Vegans and vegetarians do possess an advantage from this perspective as well as many others.

    • Paleo Huntress

      What’s your take on this data? http://www.cancer.gov/ncicancerbulletin/111312/page6
      It is generally only organ meats and eggs with high choline levels… Muscle meats run comparable to many plant foods. So an ova-vegetarian may consume more choline than an omni. Anyway, the dangers in low choline levels (fatty liver) seem to outweigh the risks of prostate cancer, if such a risk actually exists.

  • http://www.myqute.com/blog kelly

    Steve Jobs not only ate unfermented soy and probably farm-fed fish, he also had organ transplants that placed him on a lifetime of immuno-suppressants. These immuno-suppressants deactivate all cancer-fighting mechanisms in his body.

    You can be a veget or a vegan or a meat-eater (omni) and you could still be eating wrongly. The art of eating and health maintenance is not straight-forward and especially with new foods coming onto supermarket shelves every few months.

    Cheers and Happy New Year!

    • JackMarse

      SJ was fruitarian for decades. That stressed his pancreas (causing too much insulin production). Remember when SJ looked bloated before his cancer diag?

  • [email protected]

    Did anyone else notice the contradictions of this being used to prove one point: “(see the Kitavans who eat 70% carbs but mostly saturated fat, smoke like chimneys, don’t exercise, and look like body builders.)” and this: “High carb diets lower immune function. They lead to yeast overgrowth and they feed cancer cells by providing excess insulin. They also lead to mood swings and hormonal disorders, especially very bad PMS. Even worse, high carbs put stress on the pancreas” to prove another? So basically, you’ll look like a cancer-ridden body builder if you eat a high-carb diet? And of course, he has some magic bullet to sell. If you can’t even make it through a single page without contradicting yourself, I call it all snake oil.

  • Karol Hogerton

    I haven’t eaten meat since 1973 and I am 66. still feel healthy.

    • Paleo Huntress

      Lots of people eat the crappiest, junkiest food known and live far longer. So?
      N=1

  • Rhianna

    Carbohydrates cannot be converted to protein.. where did you read this? and on top of that 70% of people are gluten intolerant? The actual figures are 1 in 10 AT MOST and about 1 in 100 who have coeliac disease. Most peoples “gluten sensitivity” is a result of all this dogma from ridiculous internet post which actually make this whole gluten sensitivity more of a placebo effect. There are so many uninformed opinions on this post, having an opinion is fine but dont try to sell it as if it is science.

    • whatsa2

      But you are talking about debilitating symptoms..right?
      In moderation the effects can be unseen it doesn’t mean its not there.
      I am a celiac and 1/4 a slice of spelt will not make me noticeably ill but I know there is a negative response to this in my system regardless.

      Also, many with Lectin issues are diagnosed with gluten issues
      a lot of people have both so its not clear cut.
      I have issues with both and generally it is commonly referred to as gluten intolerance (wrong yes but still a grain intolerance)

  • lisa turner

    Re “one chicken death only feeds one person.” This is such a simple, important principle that goes largely unrecognized in our culture. In Native American traditions, a bison was killed to feed many, for many months; the sacrifice was respectful, and all parts of the animal were used. It’s not necessary to be a complete vegetarian to have reverence for life; thank you for making this simple but eloquent point.

    • whatsa2

      But thats a little bit of a misnomer.
      The breeding capacity of a chicken and its length of life

      is hardly a fair comparison.
      you may as well say eating a galapagos tortoise is a wiser decision than rabbits.

      This is not a life to life equivalent. ( it is what emotionally stunted individuals use to avoid the facts of life, by not facing it more)
      Wise Hunter gathers take what they need but to the limits of maintaining
      herds and flocks. The numbers are only important to the species survival and not the emotional avoidance of finding the largest animal
      and killing “one”. ( or a really lazy one) Mammoth stew anyone?

      Culling of animals is important regardless of size and how many you kill
      I have hand killed thousands of rabbits I took no joy in it. because of their life-cycle and capacity to breed more culling is necessary.
      How many it fed is really not important as eventually you will need to cull smaller animals to keep things balanced.

      Our oceans are a hunter gatherer environment

      and I am sure people are not saying kill one whale and not
      10,000 fish.

      • Paleo Huntress

        I just read a newly published paper last week where researchers discovered a 2 million year old butchery in Africa. They compared the remains there to those of prey animals of other predators like big cats and found that unlike these other predators that chose small, weak, young or elderly prey, early humans hunted large, strong animals preferentially. I think it would be hard to argue that early humans were any less a normal part of nature than other animals, but traditionally, culling would involve behaviors closer to that of the big cats than that of human beings.

        • whatsa2

          Yes it worries me the individuals who are more concerned with their personal Karma by numbers
          Than the well being of the environment….

          Our capacity to use and store large amounts of meat products does disadvantage the larger slower breeding
          animals. And add in “Karma counters” and you have a recipe for the slow extinction of larger animals.

          I find this mentality quite repugnant. sub-human if you will.

        • Paleo Huntress

          By “larger”animals, I mean the larger members of the same species that other predators were and are eating. The larger gazelle, the larger buffalo, etc., where most predators go after the smaller, weaker gazelle and buffalo.

          And whether you find it repugnant or not, it isn’t the least bit “sub” human IMO, it is very much straight-forward human. Do I think it’s sad that certain species have gone extinct? I absolutely do. But then, animals came into existence and went extinct long before human beings were in the picture, so I see it as a normal part of life on this planet.

        • whatsa2

          I was aluding to the buddist thing of picking the larger animal as less karma. Some nepalese breed guinea pigs as a source of meat. they breed fast but you need to kill more of them to eat. This is a very sustainable
          method for them and environmentally responsible.
          And not sub-human….. It you cannot see the fallacy of
          the “one life” morons then I am sorry. Its self indulgent
          pandering for their supposed scorecard for a good seat in the afterlife.
          Humans have the capacity to be more far sighted and take into consideration the balance of nature. anything less is sub-human behaviour.

        • Paleo Huntress

          It’s only more sustainable if their diet is also more sustainable. They do eat some “grass”, but they also appear to need grains, seeds, fruit and veggies. An animal doesn’t grow fast in a vacuum, it takes in more food in order to grow faster. It still makes sense to eat animals that thrive on land that doesn’t need cultivation or require special resources… and one that is already growing something humans can’t eat, like pasture.

          And again, this whole “sub-human” thing is ridiculous. It is HUMANS who have been behaving in such a way for centuries, it isn’t sub human, it is PRIME HUMAN.

        • whatsa2

          Yes get enough people in a pack and they can justify their behaviour by numbers. It does not change the facts it just makes it harder to correct.
          More idiots doing the same stupid thing doesnt
          change the facts. This is how religions work righteousness by numbers. Thankfully we are slowly outgrowing that.
          For humans with the capacity to plan ahead in real terms, not using that is sub-human.

        • Paleo Huntress

          lol I guess it’s simply a matter of opinion. I find the typical behavior of any creature, “typical’. “Sub” means “under”, “below”, “beneath”, “slightly”, “imperfectly”, “nearly”, “secondary”, “subordinate” … and as such one who is sub-human would be behaving in a way that is somehow less than the behavior of typical humans. But typical isn’t ‘less than’, it’s typical.

          This doesn’t speak to the pack mentality, religion or idiocy, just the basics of the English language.

          IMO.

          You are of course, welcome to yours.

        • whatsa2

          yes sub is below their capacity….
          I think people are capable of far more than even my small points.

          accepted norms and behaviour are a very poor
          yard stick.
          but my point was about individuals more concerned with their personal savation than the wellbeing of our environment.

          So… if you feel the norm for some is fine I guess it will just continue as acceptable.

        • Paleo Huntress

          OK, then”sub-capacity” it is… but not sub-human. (Though it is argued that we are only capable of what we actually do in the moment, that it isn’t a matter of not fulfilling our capabilities but rather of changing we are capable of) Humans behaving as humans have always behaved, is normal and not sub. It may be less than you expect or different than you desire, but it is 100% typical human behavior.

          I haven’t expressed how I feel about any of this, I’m commenting on your use of “sub” to describe what is actually normal human behavior.

          I say that if the wellbeing of our environment is your primary concern, skip the mammals and cultivate the bugs.

        • Paul Spring

          So revealing!

  • Paul Spring

    Apparently the type of slow-growing cancer Jobs had meant he actually contracted cancer in his 20’s (See Dr. McDougall’s discussion on youtube. Taubes has been thoroughly discredited. All of your medical statements are just plain incorrect (e.g. carbs stress the pancreas, yeast overgrowth and the absurd statement that the body converts carbs into protein) There is so much solid information out there that anyone who is truly interested can find it.

  • Sam

    For those who doubt whole grains, from Harvard School of medicine:
    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/health-gains-from-whole-grains/

    Moreover, sprouting improves their quality, reduces GI, and releases enzymes.

    Finally, if gluten intolerant, quinoa, GABA rice( sprouted), oats can be good

    • Paleo Huntress

      lol  Yes, if you soak or sprout it, it will be slightly less bad for you. 😉
      Check out what Harvard PhD, and Harvard staff member, Dr. Mat Lalonde, has to say about the least nutrient-dense food you can eat.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwbY12qZcF4

      • Paul Spring

        OMG – This is just a paleo love-fest. He even cites the paleo punching bag, Ancel Keys, to support his argument on the innocence of cholesterol. A good scientists don’t smirk or make snide asides or pander to an audience, or even speak at pop forums. It does’t reflect well on vegan proponents either when they display this behavior.

        • Paleo Huntress

          A “good scientist” is a human being and his smirking and snide asides have no correlation to his intellect, especially when he’s at an Ancestral Health Conference and not presenting to his scientific peers.

          You wanna hear some snide smirking? Just watch a Greger video, most especially his ’40 y/o vegan dies of a heart attack’ video. (It’s here in one of the comments.) The dismissive, invalidating, snide tone of his voice is enough to put off even many of his VEGAN flock.

          Though I understand why vegans are offended when we laugh at them, that doesn’t change the value of the data. You can turn off if it bothers you. 😉

  • Nye Tider

    he Steve Jobs didn’t survive the cancer! did he?

  • Nye Tider

    So to make exuses,the fat from animals is the key to a healthy body and brain? I dont buy this from a young person,without enough knowledge & years in business. Its many better sources for healthy fat! Cocos oil, thahin,olive oil ,fat from all kinds of nuts aso.

    • Paleo Huntress

      Do you believe in evolution, Nye? If so, where did early man get the so-called “healthy fat” from until recently? Where would a preindustrial person have gotten these fats year-round? Keep in mind, early man plots as a carnivore, eating mostly large herbivores according to the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, arguably the most respected expert resource in the world. Does it make sense that we’d evolve mechanisms to develop disease when consuming our primary food source? Evolution occurs from pressure, so if saturated fat caused disease, how would this faulty DNA get passed on?

      • Nye Tider

        We dont live in the stone ages anymore!

        • Paleo Huntress

          You misunderstand. The point is, we didn’t evolve getting fat from olives, coconut oil and nuts, we evolved getting our fats from animals, in other words, it is saturated animal fat that is healthy for the human body and brain. Living in the stone ages has nothing to do with it.

        • Nye Tider

          Tell that to the Elephants,Gorillas aso. too! Of course the early human beings got fat from seeds and plants too! We are NOT original Car’nivorous -take a better look at your teath,and why humans have appendix -Carnivorous have not! This is the fact and the truth.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Human beings aren’t elephants and gorillas. Essential fatty acids are produced in the guts of hind-gut fermentors. Humans don’t have this digestive ability so we need to get our essential fats from our food.

          As for the claims made by vegetarians far and wide, not even the VEGETARIAN experts agree with you.

          The following is from an article published at VegSource… perhaps you’re familiar with them?

          https://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

          Humans are Omnivores

          The author, John McArdle, Ph.D., is a vegetarian, a primataologist and an expert anatomist. He also serves as the current Scientific Advisor to The American Anti-Vivisection Society

          Conclusion: Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet.

          I think you should leave this stuff to the experts, Nye, the folks who actually know what they’re talking about. =)

  • helen

    hey when its your time no diet or anything will help its just your time.

  • Kb

    I’ll take what a UCSF physician (Ornish) says over an internet quack any day of the week.

  • Fat Eddie

    Give it up, you pawns of the food industry, grant-enriched nutrtion studies, and fat cat diet doctors…you are going to die….we all are going to die…and live long enough, comes the inevitable decline…children get cancer without using drugs or alcohol and they sometimes die without delay of the best treatments in the land..only out of abundance comes the absolute folly and distortion of foodstuff with a host of dysmorphic complexes and eating disorders…ugh, I say, and a pox upon you all…

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  • GG

    Before bashing his diet I think everyone needs to remember that he died of pancreatic cancer. As a person who suffers from chronic pancreatitis and battles this disease everyday I can tell you right now, THAT is why he ate a diet he did. When you have problems with your pancreas who have a hard time digesting your food MOSTLY FATS!!! You should eat a diet that consist of mostly raw fruit and vegetables. Extremely low fat, no processed food and artificial ingredients. Your body just can’t digest them! And do you really think vegans do not get protein? Obviously you need to learn more about nutrition. Wha do you think is in beans or edamame. Did you know there is more protein in broccoli than steak? Pancreatic cancer is the deadliest cancer you can get and almost no one survives it past 5 years. He survived 8. His diet did not give him cancer. In fact it probably gave him a few more years. You should really get more information on a subject before you open your mouth and write a article about it.

    • Paleo Huntress

      First, the pancreas has nothing whatsoever to do with the metabolism of fat, that would be your gallbladder. The pancreas is all about glucose.

      Second, it is utterly tragic that Furhman’s false claims about plant proteins are still be disseminated– it makes his followers look like “twu believers”.

      “Broccoli has more protein than steak”—and other crap

      “According the Dr. Furhman’s book, Eat to Live, a 100-calorie portion of sirloin steak has 5.4 grams of protein, and a 100-calorie portion of broccoli has 11.2 grams of protein. This is rubbish. According to the USDA’s Agricultural Research Service’s Nutrient Data Laboratory database, 100 calories of broiled beef, top sirloin steak has exactly 11.08 grams of protein and 100 calories of chopped, raw broccoli has exactly 8.29. I’m not sure what universe Dr. Furhman lives in, but in my universe, 8.29 is less than 11.08.”

      I can explain the discrepancy in numbers by the simple fact that Dr. Furhman and I used different sources for our information. Dr. Furham wrote his book—the one that contains the piece of drivel under consideration—in 2005, but he chose to reference a nutrition book written in 1986 (Adams, C. 1986. Handbook of the Nutritional Value of Foods in Common Units, New York: Dover Publications). Why did he dig up a reference nearly two decades old and not just use the USDA internet database, which is—and has been since the 1990s—available to anyone with a library card and a half a brain? While I do not wish to speculate on exactly which of these tools Dr. Furhman might be lacking, suffice it to say that it would take less than 10 minutes for any blogger interested in the truth of the matter to find a more recent source of information—assuming of course that bloggers who perpetuate this particular fiction are interested in the truth.”

      You should really get more information on a subject before you open your mouth.

      • Paul Spring

        Just asserting something does not make it so:”First, the pancreas has nothing whatsoever to do with the metabolism of fat….”

        See:

        Fatty acids and glycerol are mainly generated from triacylglycerol via catalysis by various lipases activated at the initial step of fatty acid metabolism, which is recognized as fat mobilization. Insulin and prostaglandin are able to inhibit fat mobilization, reduce the generation of fatty acid, and prevent the actions of many lipotropins such as adrenaline and glucagon, which can activate adenylate cyclase via cell membrane surface receptors and further stimulate the intracellular lipases via the phosphorylation of PKA.

  • Stephanie

    Hi Dave,
    You mentioned that on a high-carb vegan diet “Your stress hormones will rise in response and even your genes will respond. For short periods of time, this can even be healthy.” Exactly how short of a period of time would this be healthy? Could you possibly do a piece on the 80/10/10 (fruititarian) diet? I’m unable to find much scientific information about it, but it’s very intriguing and I would like to try it as a delicious detox. Who doesn’t want to gorge on sugary fruit?! Thanks for all the articles and podcasts you release – they’re fun to listen to and they’ve been improving my health drastically!

  • K V Cash

    it wasn’t the diet that killed him – it was his awful diet prior to the diet that could have helped him had he started sooner…this article is stupid. I love my plant based diet – had I not been “forced” on to it at 7 years of age because of my extreme ill health and my mother and doctor believing I was failing to thrive…I probably wouldn’t be here today.

  • John Mclaren

    McDougall makes a good case that Jobs may have developed a slow growing cancer when he worked in an electronics factory back in early 1970’s. I too am vegan, high fruit, about half raw, 80% whole carbs, no oils and only a tiny bit of raw nuts. 50 yo, athletic and never felt better. This article is a huge distortion. The people dying around me are everyone except the natural food vegans. Why on earth would fruitarians supplement fiber? Fruit is loaded with fiber. It’s a primary source. I’ve never heard of these fiber supplements- that stuff is for for people who avoid fruit, legumes and grains. I’m probably getting too much fiber.

    And starvation reactions from not eating fats and meat? Give me a freakin break! I feel sorry for meat eaters because they can hardly eat! I eat mountains of low density fruits, whole grains and veggies. I eat to capacity. These poor paleo dieters are the ones starving themselves of carbohydrates and counting calories, eventually having starvation reactions and going for the fats every time. That’s why they can’t keep weight off. Besides all that acidic metabolizing, health destroying high protein. Protein- what a terrible energy source. Fat is not much better except maybe for extreme endurance sports. Does that describe many of you?

    Also very low fat and avoid saturated fats. Humans make most of the fats they need, the rest are best from raw nuts, and humans should ingest zero cholesterol, optimally. Ingesting free cholesterol from some other animal is a big liability.

  • walchy

    Can anyone provide some studies for the claims above? thanks in advance

    Justin

  • Bill Woody

    Asprey is such a dumbass! Boys and girls, science is repeatable. It is not flawless but, all the cards are usually on the table. I wish I could say Asprey is only interested in your wallet. Yet, I think he also wants you to think he is brilliant. Unfortunately, he is still just another dumbass telling people what he thinks they want to hear.

    • Paleo Huntress

      “Unfortunately, he is still just another dumbass telling people what he thinks they want to hear.”

      Oh, the funny.

      “I resemble that remark.” ~Garfield

  • Vesa

    I kinda agree with the nutritional statement of this post, but the way Dave piggybacks another persons death to further his own ideology, makes me wanna throw up. “Dr. Ornish, it’s time for you to recant your extremist low-fat views. They’re killing people every day.” seriously? Cancer is much more complicated than this.

    And there’s a lot of people writing blogs and articles concerning nutrition who back their claims with references to studies or with science and who don’t have an agenda selling their own line of products.

    • Paul Spring

      What is the Ornish product line?

  • tofucatnip

    One has to come to the sad conclusion that you’re funded by Big Beef. Your generalizations and wild conclusions are breathtaking, Bulletproof.
    .

    • Paleo Huntress

      Totally…

  • Threeoclock

    I have no idea how i came across this website, but where does this blind confidence come from? Everything people did 1000 years ago or 10000 years ago must obviously be truth to be followed. I guess 10000 years from now, they’ll have the McDonalds and genocides to emulate our society on. Science is a term that has come to mean something other than what it perhaps is. Getting a phd, working at a university all these things that makes one a scientist today, doesn’t guarantee there to be much science at all produced. Science isn’t about conflicts of interest, attachment or having an ego, it is about open-mindedness, humility (believe me, we may pride ourselves on our televisions and cars, but there is a whole realm of possibility and mystery this universe presents us with, that if you knew much of anything you’d realize how ill-equipped we are to project out into this world with a hard head and closed mind) and experience. ” Man was meant to eat meat, hence we should enslave and torture animals…” “No man was meant to eat vegetables and fruits…” Who is to say what man was meant to do? Do you believe every ridiculous article you read because you can find one out there that says pretty much anything, many of written by “esteemed scientists”. Our only problem right now is one of close mindedness, arrogance and lack of humility. The scientific community of today reminds me more of the religious community condemning astronomers hundreds of years ago than of people concerned with truth and progress. What gets me though is how impassioned not the “scientists” and “doctors”, but the lay person will argue and argue as though they have years of first hand experimental knowledge that all but exhausts every other possibility and points to this singular truth in which we all must follow. When in reality, most of these people have read article after article or talked to so and so, and read these books, and simply because it made sense on some level, it is the absolute truth. Geeze, open your minds, stop fighting. You don’t know. Diet is a stupid thing to be so stubbornly attached to or develop some overly confident world view. Don’t let the internet fool you into thinking you’ve exhausted all realm of possibility. Don’t let your ability to form a rebuttal fool you into thinking you know something more than you do. And finally, how does it feel to just butt heads with someone?
    It seems awfully convenient for anyone in our society to speak so arrogantly of food, when most don’t produce it themselves. All those staunch meat eaters, i’m glad you not only lack a regard for another living thing (doesn’t take much I guess, and this disregard is obviously something to have pride in), but please don’t compare yourself to other carnivores. We’re the only species that relies primarily on cooked meat, covered in spices, herbs, sauces and bread crumbs. Not to mention most of the meat your eating, is meat you so conveniently buy in a grocery store where an animal has been enslaved verses hunted. Its great, you are the only carnivore in the world who doesn’t and has no instinct to, get their hands dirty. But every time you grill up your chicken and go endlessly on while you eat it that you are being a ‘caveman’ (obviously, who wouldn’t want to be one, especially as they have been depicted to us) and getting all that protein (obviously again, you all have know the science here), in reality, you are so far from the people and animals you compare yourself to and more like a gluten who simply enjoys the flavor and is unable to imagine a different reality than the one they were born into. I don’t know if my diet is the one we’re meant to eat, but I also realize there is an awful shit load of conflicts of interest, suffering and environmental damage behind what we’ve all been raised on. Think for yourselves and actually say something. Because saying ‘we’re meant to’ or claiming some abstract scientific claim you don’t understand, is not saying anything at all (it’s so funny how we always fall back to superstition and blind fear as a society). And if you got nothing to say, simply realize these are stupid things to be attached to. You didn’t form this society before you were born into it!

    • Paleo Huntress

      It’d be great if you’d reduce to wall-o-words to something that lends itself to reading.

    • Paul Spring

      Very thoughtful and from the heart. Paleo Huntress doesn’t seem to have the patience to read and would rather critique your writing style than respond. Maybe because there is no response.

      • Paleo Huntress

        “Paleo Huntress” didn’t respond because she didn’t read it.

        Click edit, 3 O’clock, and learn what a paragraph break is.

  • rarnedsoum

    You’re an idiot.
    What kind of science and common send do you possess?
    You will pass soon, based on your intelligence, as reported.
    Good luck.

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  • M2

    “vegetarians have a higher mortality rate than people who eat only grass-fed (mycotoxin free) meat”… no scientific support anywhere on this site or the internet. Horrible opinion post.

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    What an imbecile you are….. flaunting your ignorance and misleading people with it.

  • Querric

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  • Sheri

    What I know for sure . The leading cause of death in the US is heart disease and the leading culprit is fats , particularly fats in meat and dairy . The only food plan to reverse Coronary Artery Disease is the one by Dr . Ornish . So., keep eating steak and bacon and one day your arteries will be severely blocked and you will likely go on a vegetarian food plan like his . That’s what happened to Bill Clinton. Vegetables and fruits are not only heart healthy , they are good for our digestive system and have powerful antioxidants . It is really a no brainer .

    • Paleo Huntress

      Another crap claim from a vegan twu believer.

      This was published at VegSource, perhaps you’ve heard of them?

      Don’t Go Vegetarian Or Vegan For Health Benefits

      “Vegetarians and Vegans Don’t Live Longer”

      “What we see is that, when the definition of “vegetarian” in the Adventist study is limited people who are actually vegetarian, we get pretty much the same findings as the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC) study of vegetarians from a few years ago — that there is no significant difference in death rates between (actual) vegetarians and meat-eaters/fish-eaters.

      So tell us, Sheri, if meat and dairy fat CAUSE heart disease, why are vegans and vegetarians dying from the same number of heart attacks as the meat and dairy-eating omnis?

      There there is vegan guru .T. Colin Campbell stating that,

      “We made a mistake 20 or 30 years ago in focusing on fat. It wasn’t animal fat. In fact we have evidence now to suggest that maybe the polyunsaturated fats of plants are more problematic[.]”

      You can also find this at VegSource.

      • Paul Spring

        I find it so curious that meat eaters will drag out some study to confirm their bias ( which if they actually read the study they’d discover don’t really support their bias), but conveniently ignore the wealth of research that counters it. When someone uses the term “crap claim” or “junk science” they’ve immediately lost the debate by name-calling.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Drag it out?

          This data is the stuff of vegan wet-dreams… THIS is the stuff vegans use to support their claims ALL the time.

          There is no benefit, not in disease occurrence, outcome or longevity. This data comes from a study specifically created by vegetarians to study vegetarians… and is published at a pro-vegetarian source… a very popular one, I might add.

          I can’t help it if it doesn’t support your dogma. =(

        • Paul Spring

          (You need to understand the difference between vegetarians and vegans.) There are health vegan diets and unhealthy. If I eat a lot of oils, refined grains and sugars – your damn right, I’ll be as unhealthy as a meat eater.

        • Paleo Huntress

          If I eat a lot of oils, refined grains and sugars – your damn right, I’ll be as unhealthy as a vegan.

          See how that works?

          Funniest thing about this data is that the group that made ALL the difference was the one eating small amounts of animal food. They were actually the healthiest of all of the subgroups. The people who ate no animal food had worse health.

          And let’s get something straight, veganism is an ethical choice and the quality of the food eaten isn’t even a factor. Vegans can certainly eat a ton of shit and still be just as fully vegan as someone eating whole food.

          I think the term you’re searching for is WFPB.

        • Paul Spring

          Very good point – vegan is an ethical choice and WFBP does represent the health focus. The number of true vegans in the study were microscopic and there was no break down for whole food plant-based vegans that I saw. Again – vegetarians are often no better off than meat eaters and maybe even worse if they replace meat with liquid meat, eggs, cheese and expressed oils.

        • Paleo Huntress

          As I said, the healthiest group were the people who ate animal food on occasion. They were healthier than the omnis and healthier than the vegans.

        • Paul Spring

          Exactly what “nutrients” does meat provide that you don’t get from plants (other than easily obtained B12)?

        • Paleo Huntress

          You mean besides high-quality, highly digestible protein, pre-formed vitamin A, D3 and DHA?

          Uh yeah.

          You can analyze all you wish, but they are still healthier than the vegans.

        • Paul Spring

          That’s it? That’s all meat has to offer? You are claiming plants do not have digestible protein or vitamin A? How much protein do you think a healthy person or athlete needs? Why would you want “preformed” vitamin A when it is the only form that can lead to toxic effects? Meat has none of the thousands of critical phytonutrients which is why you paleo’s have to eat lots of veggies to remain healthy.

          Face it – I may be a zealous vegan and WFPB advocate but you are not the pillar of cool rationality. I assume from your label that you do kill the animals you eat and take satisfaction in doing so – that’s your moral and ethical prerogative. I believe we humans have evolved ethically beyond that – so be it.

        • Paleo Huntress

          There was no break down for whole food omnis either.

      • Paul Spring

        B12 – And please keep within the forum guidelines for decorum.

    • Paleo Huntress

      Clinton ditched Ornish’s diet for low carb Paleo last April. >.< Apparently the diet was too starchy and he was gaining weight.

  • Jonathan Chambers

    Totally agree with you on the healthly fats they are critical… but you have totally discredited your whole article by rubbishing whole grains… which are the staple of human health. Vegetarians need good fats and healthly proteins and they will be healthy. Meat carries the vibration of death and is not essential for human health in a western climate.

  • LnsDisqus

    I have to say this was one of the most interesting discussions in a comment section that I have come across. I lost hours reading everyone’s opinions. I would like to add here that I personally do not think calling people idiots or stupid accomplishes anything in the discussion except possibly finding myself dismissing some of what the person is trying to get across. Outside of a good discussion, one of my personal favorites was one person excoriating the other for putting down how much meat he at in a year when most likely he meant week or month and then went on to talk about “heat disease”. I also liked the one that said you can cure headaches 100% of the time by decapitation, but that doesn’t mean it is a good idea.

    I have spent many years reading people’s conclusions about diet and health, their supporting research, direct research, etc. I have always found it interesting that if you take the time to investigate the people presenting it, many times it sheds a whole new light on the situation. Almost everyone here seems to agree GMO’s are a problem, but you will find plenty of “research” that says it is perfectly fine. That is where being skeptical is prudent e.g. low fat is better when harmful fats are used to make the case. I could go on for a long time about the pros and cons of what I have read and conclusions I have come to, but much of that has already been debated here.

    The bottom line in all diets that seems to work is clean food, whether it’s plant based or meat based. Each side here sites different cultures that thrive as did Price, but the common thread I see in these isolated groups is that the food was natural in the environment. It wasn’t polluted with “factory” anything.

    Me personally, I have had great success, both in health and well being using a cycle of Keto for a month or so and then a couple months of eating what might be called “a more balanced diet”. I still avoid sugars of any kind except fruit, many of the grains, and starchy vegetables even off cycle. Besides, you lose too much weight when in ketosis and I believe it is better to lose weight slowly. You don’t stall, you don’t have to deprive yourself “forever”, and your body and mind has time to adapt to the ultimate desired diet without all the discipline. It is just what works for me and my health, so take it for what it is worth.

    BTW, if I ever got cancer of any kind, before I resorted to standard treatments, I would definitely go Ketogenic and take something like DCA to further disrupt it’s ability to survive in a lowered glucose state.

    That’s my two cents folks.

    • Paul Spring

      Very thoughtful response. Sadly there is no “clean” or healthy meat-based diet -especially in today’s polluted environment – grass fed, free range or not. Animals are a huge concentrator of carcinogens, nerve toxins, etc. The higher in food chain the worse. That’s why fish is so dangerous – mercury, alkylphenol endocrine disruptors.. The “nutrients” in animal products are extremely limited to protein, fat, trans-fat and some minerals – the thousands of vital phytonutrients in plants are not there – all used by the animal for its own benefit. Mother’s milk is only 5% protein whereas most plants have more protein content with beans at 20%.
      Beyond the health impacts – eating meat is not sustainable to the planet with the current population. Maybe 200 years ago but no longer.

      • Paleo Huntress

        There is no meat-based diet, period. The standard American omni diet get 2/3 to 3/4 of its calories from PLANTS, not meat.

        NOT eating meat is not sustainable.

        If we’re going to look to breastmilk for our cues about adult consumption, you should also keep in mind that breastmilk is more than 50% fat, and half of that is saturated.

        How many plants still match this macro ratio?

        http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/95/2

        Stupid vegans.

        • Paul Spring

          Ignoring the “stupid vegans” comment – breast milk as with cows milk is for getting a baby to grow as quickly as possible to maturity. Human milk is especially designed for baby humans, cows milk for baby cows. The “cue” was that protein content is not significant in mother’s milk – its the calories from fat and milk sugar plus human hormones (not cow) that human baby’s need. Aside from it being inappropriate for adults to consume milk (what other animals drink there own milk as adults let alone secretions from another species?!) milk in the US contains anywhere from 3% to 19% pus due to inflamed udders. In addition, most humans in the world (70%) lose there ability to digest milk sugar – hint hint – maybe eating milk products ain’t so natural after all.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Ahh, I see… we should pay attention to the macros in breastmilk when trying to prove that people don’t need much protein, but when trying to prove that people don’t need much fat, breast milk composition is no longer relevant.

          Good to know. 😉

          There is no pus in cow’s milk. Somatic cells are not pus and are found in greater concentrations in human milk than in cow’s milk.

          I don’t drink milk. But I am allergic to bullshit.

        • Paul Spring

          As a paleo, I don’t get your defense of milk. Somatic cells are dead white blood cells generated by creating milk and in response to infection. Dead white blood cells are components of pus. The industry tries to keep somatic cell count (SCC) low. Just wiping off and “sanitizing” infected udders doesn’t impact the severe inflammation and mastitis these poor animals experience. If one wants to drink pus that’s fine, but at least people should be aware of what they are putting into their bodies.

        • Paleo Huntress

          Well I’m not surprised you don’t get it, you’re vegan… and vegans will say anything at all to reach their end.

          I prefer the truth. I’m not defending dairy, I’m defending fact. There is no pus in cow’s milk. Breast-feeding moms are told to nurse more on the breast that they’ve developed infection in but the experts will tell you that the infection doesn’t enter the milk in humans either.

          Somatic cells are not pus. And they’re not dead until you kill them.

          If one wants to drink pus, they’ll have to go suck on a sore to get it.

          Somatic cell

          A somatic cell is generally taken to mean any cell forming the body of an organism.

          Somatic cells, by definition, are not germline cells.

          In mammals, germline cells are the sperm and ova (also known as “gametes”) which fuse during fertilization to produce a cell called a zygote, from which the entire mammalian embryo develops.

          Every other cell type in the mammalian body, apart from the sperm and ova, the cells from which they are made (gametocytes) and undifferentiated stem cells, is a somatic cell; internal organs skin, bones, blood and connective tissue are all made up of somatic cells.

          Pus

          noun

          1. a yellow-white, more or less viscid substance produced by suppuration and found in abscesses, sores, etc., consisting of a liquid plasma in which white blood cells are suspended.

          Somatic cells are not pus.

        • Paul Spring

          I stand corrected. I did find a more reliable source, nutritionfacts.org in addition to dairy industry documents, and the amount of pus in milk is no where near the level indicated by my original source. Having said that, your answer contains irrelevant facts. In fact, not all somatic cells are equal. The concern is that the presence of neutrophils, the dead white blood cells created from the cow’s immune response to infection is a concern to the industry. They don’t try to hide it – why should you? 1 in 6 dairy cows have mastitis and 1 in 6 cows die because of it – no wonder the dairy industry is concerned. The hope is that pasteurization kills the pathogens – even so, the high white blood cell count impacts milk and cheese flavor and processing properties.

          If you are concerned with the “truth”, don’t you think people should know that there are millions of these pathogenic-created cells per teaspoon of milk they are drinking? You can’t cover up “pus” with the nice sounding word, somatic cell, and claim to be serious about letting people know what they are drinking so they can decide for themselves.

        • Paleo Huntress

          “Reliable” should never be used in the same sentence with Dr. Greger. Second rule of nutrition club, never use NutritionFacts as a source. He’s a well paid Humane Society shill.

        • Paul Spring

          A shill for the humane society – Too funny! You sure have a chip on your shoulder or a great sense of humor. How much does the good Doctor get paid? The directors of the Humane Society get paid about $1 from what I can see.

          Nutrition Facts is not a “source”, by the way – it is a compilation of peer reviewed journal articles on nutrition. Good for someone interested in finding the truth for him or herself.

        • Paleo Huntress
          Nutrition Facts is not a “source”, by the way” ~Paul Spring

          I did find a more reliable source, nutritionfacts. org ~Paul Spring, a couple of hours earlier.

          Typical Vegan– can’t remember what he thinks or says from one moment to the next.

          NutritionFacts is a compilation of the very best cherry picking veganism has to offer… And I KNOW it’s not a source, that’s why you and other vegans of your ilk shouldn’t cite it and call it a source.

          He’s not a director, he’s a SHILL.

          shillnoun

          2. a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

          As for you believing he’s site is a more reliable source, the experts disagree.

          “Despite the seemingly nonpartisan branding, “Nutrition Facts” until last year was called the “Vegan Research Institute,” so that should tell you what you need to know about the agenda of the site. Whatever Greger calls his project, debunking him simply requires going through the minutiae of the studies he cites. It’s a laborious task, but thankfully someone has done it for us.

          Over at Science Based Medicine, a website run by doctors with an eye towards promoting high standards in medicine and research, editor and former Air Force colonel Dr. Harriet Hall takes a hard look at a Greger video recommended to her by a vegan activist. You can read her full analysis, but she finds a number of examples of Greger ludicrously citing research. For example, one study Greger cites as showing that “plant-based” diets protect against kidney failure actually indicates that low-fat dairy products are also protective. The devil is in the details, but Greger is in the business of making overly broad statements that fit his narrative.

          Hall summarizes Greger’s formula rather well:

          “These videos tend to fall into an easily recognizable pattern. They feature a charismatic scientist with an agenda who makes sweeping statements that go beyond the evidence, makes unwarranted assumptions about the meaning of studies, and omits any reference to contradictory evidence.”

          And she also calls out Greger’s laughable rhetoric:

          “[Greger] compares raw meat to hand grenades, because of bacterial contamination. If you don’t handle them safely, it’s like pulling the pin. Are we selling hand grenades in grocery stores? This is a ridiculous comparison, and it ignores the fact that plant-based foods can be a source of contamination too.”

          You won’t find any “truth” at NutritionFacts.

        • Paul Spring

          So as a diversion the focus is on Dr. Greger. I try to read the references he sites when possible. He responds to criticism on his site and will change his opinion in light of new evidence. He certainly does not hide his vegan outlook. He’d be a hypocrite to not practice what he preaches.

          I looked at the Science-Based Medicine site. Interesting – but you realize they are self-proclaimed “skeptics” whose mission is to, in their minds, debunk what they consider “bad science” – i.e. poke holes. Fine, I like healthy skepticism. The narrative you presented by Dr. Harris, however, was a perfect example of extreme bias due to that crusade. She dismisses studies showing the impact of eggs on vascular function – apparently because she doesn’t understand the measurement techniques.

          Nutritional science is one of the most difficult to carry out because of the infinite number of confounding variables. For instance – often the “low fat” groups in these studies are “high fat” by the standards of those promoting high carb, no-oil diets. Please describe the type of “feasible” nutritional study that you would believe.

          I’m surprised that a paleo would defend factory poultry farming practices – even Consumers Reports (trash them too?) have sounded the alarm.

          Even if all these studies and vegan proponents are lying through their spinach encrusted teeth, you still haven’t made any case for the intrinsic nutritional benefits of eating meat vs WFPB.

        • Paleo Huntress

          I subscribe to Greger’s videos and blog… I challenge you to find me an instance of him responding to criticism and changing his opinion. 😉

          He IS a hypocrite.

          Harris doesn’t dismiss any studies… she considers them ALL. The point she was making is that when Greger “scours the data”, he never shows you any of the thousands of studies demonstrating benefit from animal food, in other words he CHERRY PICKS and then shares what HE wants you to believe, he doesn’t share it all.

          Speaking of spinach encrusted teeth (we omnis eat spinach too, you know 😉 the TOP most dangerous food (the one with the biggest record for making people ill from food-borne pathogens” is raw greens, especially spinach.

          I’m not trying to hide anything about dairy, as I pointed out earlier, I’m just allergic to bullshit. You made a false claim, and I pointed out that it was false. I guess I could accuse of you of trying to cover up the dangers in sprouts, greens, berries, tomatoes and potatoes, but then, that’s not what we were talking about is it? We were talking about your claim that there is pus in milk. But then, don’t you think vegan people should know that there are millions of these pathogenic cells per leaf or berry that they’re eating? Or is it only the omnis that concern you?

          What I can accuse you of is a fallacy of relevance… but I’m sure that building and smashing straw-men helps keep you fit. I’ve not defended factory farming anywhere… in fact, I’m quite certain that milk can be sourced from pastured, organic dairies and small, family farms and I’ve not offered any opinion at all on poultry, which I personally don’t eat either.

          The intrinsic nutritional benefits of animal food over plants are pretty straightforward– animal foods are more essentially nutritious than plant foods. And animals can be pastured on non-arable land than cannot support crops, and also happens to represent the largest land mass on Earth… they use the same amount of water as grains, they produce less methane than rice and they are carbon negative. They even take fewer lives than a grain-filled diet. Grains are destroying the planet and the topsoil. They are cheap and nutrient deficient.

          Show me a study that compares the diets of WFPB and whole food omnis where vegans are healthier. Vegans whine incessantly about how most of the data doesn’t separate out the “whole food” vegans… well, it doesn’t separate out the whole food omnis either. (Of course you’d rather see a whole food plant-based diet up against a junk-food omni diet any day, right?) So show me a study that demonstrates that the removal of animal food from an otherwise whole food diet improves health. This should be easy, right?

          And don’t forget, often WFPB diets include animal food too. 😉

  • Jeff

    Wow, you’ll do anything to promote your unhealthy brand. Disgusting.

  • Peter Johannes

    Great writing! But I feel that you cant compare meat with seeds, like hempseeds and the rest. free aminoacids like there was and is in vegitarian diet as direct protein building blocks, without the energy costy protein prosess, and animalfat cant be compared with fats from seeds and nuts, the animals have a lot of fat, but eats only grass, what is happening? I agree that healthy happy animal fat is another universe then notsohappy animal sources. Anyway, I am fuction fine on my semi vegitarian free open diet, and my family wants me to eat meat, the problem is, i would love to, but my body reacts badly everytime, my stomac hurts and it feels no good. Boiled Bone is what i need – There is no genneral recomendation for anyone, one have to be open to feel what is working, what is happening and hpw you feel, emotionally and mindbalanced, we have “braincells” from your lips to our utter colon, one network of intelligence, along our whole digestion system, htis braincells hypercommunicates with our life and our food, that we are made of, and the body prepare it self for anything that comes in, trying to make the best of the whole prosess. Tibetans have a tradition of eating one food type only for pne month before next food kind. that may make it better, for them, but who could follow and get the same results?

    The problem today is polution of everything that goes on in the industrial foodchain, and the food is feeling terrified, sad and stressed, even the plants (one day we can prove this, maybe even now).

    So the best thing we coild ever do is to feel what is right for us, instead of following any diet or advise, cause we are very different function body-mind systems, each and everyone of us, That we share in common. Sorry for Jobs he followed his mind belief, and not his body feeling and open mind to taste what is going on in t´his body. He just was thinkning that this was it. And it wassnt.

    We should be very aware about the consiousness in the body and the food, cause they are made by creation to communicate, and what they communicate, is what they reflect.
    And that goes trough it all.

    Who knows? It is just what i felt like writing when reading this.

    All luck and evolution to you guyes: you are dooing importaint work that is helping humanity further in a cleaner direction and lifestyle. <3
    Peter J

  • Momat32

    Another luminary dying too young of cancer. And setting up a fund to distribute vegan food to poor people…http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dying-simpson-co-creator-donate-fortune-article-1.2006203

  • Mark

    The problem with Vegetarians is similar to the problem runners have. They think their running or veggism somehow safeguards them against disease and they can eat what they want. I was invited to a veggie get together the other day by a local veggie society. It was a coffee cakes and buns !! evening. I also get invited to evening meals eg the current xmas dinner veggie get together. I always decline because the menu is so utterly disastarous in terms of health. I am not anti veggie far from it but in my experience so many of them do not really understand nutrition or think that veggie = good nutrition automatically

    • Paul Spring

      Absolutely true! But eating meat = eating junk food – there are no healthy options.

  • Portter Mark
  • Brutally-Honest-Joe

    Blah blah blah … You and everyone else are making this up or fitting certain facts to your specific purpose.

  • http://www.mattdippl.com/ Matt Dippl BHSc TCM, IFM

    Dave I have so much respect for this article. Telling it as it is and I find it very sincere. What a tragedy I agree with you. I mean what if Steve would have gotten another advice. Where woud Apple be today?

    Here a little story that fits in with your experience at Kopan. I was a monk in Burma for 6 weeks with 4 weeks in retreat and I just realized today that still to this day monks in Burma intermittent fast as well and that the Buddha made it a rule for all meditators and monks back in his time.

    In my 30 day retreat the first meal was at 6AM (meat, eggs and veggies, given by donations) and second meal was at 1 PM (similar to the 1st one, and monks always eat what is given to them) and then no meal for the rest of the day just sugar lime water in the late evening. I felt amazing back then after the retreat I can remember and loved that rhythm.

    I just recently got onto your protocols and boy is it working. I never had this much clarity and energy in my whole life. Thank you so much. I suffered as well from Hashimoto’s, leaky gut and Heliobacter Pylori and I hacked it with the help Functional lab work ups as well as Izabella’s work (we met in Amsterdam and are friends).

    While going through my health journey with hacking Hashi’s lived in Australia and Europe because I supported my wife with launching her start-up with a well known accelerator. I was doing Ok with some Functional Medicine protocols but still not 100% so I kept a low profile.

    The company got seed funding and took off but the journey got a bit rocky when it turned out that one of my wife’s co-founders and CTO turned out to be a liability to the team because of his health habits. I saw that trouble was coming. At the same time surprisingly I got invited to give a talk on Biohacking at the Start-up accelerator event and I titling it “Are You killing it in Business or is the Business Killing You.” Still I was not 100% on top of my health game and later it turned out it was the Heliobacter Pylori which I discovered through lab work ups.

    And here’s the bomb. And then more then 12 months later after going a tough start-up phase with all the ups and downs my wife’s co-founder died of a stroke. Of course it was long in the making – too much stress not enough sleep, on a constant adrenaline high being on vision and a diet consisting of diet coke, Sandwiches and beer at night. I don’t want to judge him – he was a stellar bloke but whenever I tried to help it fell on deaf ears.

    A real tragedy that could have been avoided maybe if he would have followed my advice to get a big blood draw done to check his risk markers like Homocysteine. I talked about it a couple of times when a Functional medicine Doc from San Diego visited us in Amsterdam. This biohacking movement is creating some real change… My hat off to you. :-)

    As well I have heard a great story from my meditation teacher about a great Tibetan Lama who was his teacher.

    One day this master was invited to a vegetarian society. He was seated on the head of the table and ordered a big fatty steak while all others were sipping green tea. The asked him why he did it and he answered something like this (I was not there):

    “You noble people are surely judging me now for eating this meat because you all are vegetarian. You might even think I have blood on my hands… But contemplate this – for you to drink your cups of tea a lot of conditions had to come together. While tending to the tea leaves that you are drinking now the farmers turned all the little animals under the earth on top of the earth and so they died and all the animals on top of the earth got turned under the earth and they died there. So actually you are then all drinking limitless cups full of blood as well. So we are the same. But for my meal 1 sentient being died and for you cups of teas limitless sentient beings had to die. Understand this: There just is no way in the world to live that does not create any suffering to others. Death is part of life.”

    • Paul Spring

      Sorry but your “monk” just wanted a thick juicy steak and, as any good cult leader, justified it to his followers. No different than the sexual abuse carried out by some cult leaders based upon its spiritual value. The fellow should refrain from walking in the woods if he doesn’t want to kill bugs.

  • chloeholly

    John McDougall, MD has a youtube video called “Why did Steve Jobs die” where he explains that Jobs’s cancer probably came from exposure to heavy metals in his early twenties and that by the time he was diagnosed, the cancer had most certainly spread and was incurable. The video is based on a paper McDougall wrote. The facts presented in the video have never been disputed by a single medical professional or scientific researcher.

    • Paleo Huntress

      If you have the citation to that paper available, I’d love to read it.

      • chloeholly

        just now saw your post. I believe this is it. https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2011nl/nov/jobs.htm

        • Paleo Huntress

          When you say “paper” in a nutrition conversation, the understanding is that it is something published in a peer-reviewed journal. That is NOT a “paper”, it’s a blog post and an opinion piece at that.

          You would be so much better served by learning what constitutes actual evidence. Considering how little evidence you read, your claim that it has “never been disputed by a single medical professional or scientific researcher” is bizarre. How could you possibly know what has or has not been disputed in the thousands of legitimate papers published in journals you’ve never read?

        • chloeholly

          That’s why I said “believe”, because I wasn’t sure. Mcdougall reports that no legitimate researcher has refuted his analysis, not me. Did you not watch the video? Well, I bet not, since it would be too scientific for you and would contradict your fantasy world of killing animals and eating dead flesh. Until you do, you don’t need to be lecturing people about it to who have.

          Given the complete lack of legitimate science behind the paleo diet, you should get off your high horse. You need to read The China Study, Whole, and perhaps Super Immunity.

          And while you’re at it, learn to do your own research, instead of asking others to do it for you.

        • Paleo Huntress

          You continue to make snide comments about what would be considered “too scientific” for me, but it is only you who hasn’t offered any science. You don’t know me, you can’t even be bothered to read the comments before offering an evaluation of me.

          I was vegan once (WFPB). I spent the last 6 months of those two years following McDougall’s Starch program and then was diagnosed with Type II diabetes. I read The China Study, but unlike you, I also read ALL of the supporting data it cited. In fact, you can find my comments throughout this thread and they are backed with citations to that data.

          Quit telling others to look at the science. You have no idea what the science shows because you’re not reading it, while those you criticize ARE. You’re projecting your own failing onto others.

          “And while you’re at it, learn to do your own research, instead of asking others to do it for you.”

          The above comment could not be more ironic or hypocritical if you were trying, cloeholly. Instead of doing your own research, you appealed to another, (McDougall), to do it for you.

          Perhaps you live in Backwards Land.

    • Paleo Huntress

      I found the video here–> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81xnvgOlHaY

      What I DIDN’T find is a citation for that paper you mentioned. Instead, there is a link to his 3-Day Advanced Study Weekend, which can be yours for the low, LOW price of $615!

      (PLUS the cost of lodging.)

      And he is generously offering “basic blood tests – cholesterol, triglycerides, blood sugar, and thyroid function (TSH) – for a “surcharge” of $100.

      Yeah.

      Snake oil.

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  • Paul Spring

    I suppose “critical” is in the eye of the beholder. I believe that my future morbidity depends critically on what I put into my body. Perhaps there are some phytochemicals remaining in meat that have not been oxidized or metabolized – your point? Animals sure are concentrators (get your dose of Hg from fish) – what is the point? Phytochemicals are thought to be generated as protective agents for the plant. Why settle for the left-overs that may or may not be available from the animal, along with the known toxic left-overs that thankfully, phytonutrients may play a role in ameliorating.

    I don’t question for a moment that humans have adapted to eat just about anything if prepared correctly. That one type of food may be less healthy than another becomes moot if survival is at stake. If there are no plants, we eat animals to survive. If we like the taste of animals or they are part of a cultural norm, we may choose to eat them anyway regardless of the nutritional value.

    As I believe I said before, there are plenty of ways to be an unhealthy vegan. Some vegans don’t care about the #1 animal, themselves, as they do others. So that proves what?

    You still haven’t answered the question, what am I missing by being WFPB? What is my prognosis given that you believe I am lacking in key nutrients? And what studies would you recommend to settle some of these nutrition questions?

    • Paleo Huntress

      We expertly hunted and ate animals 2 million years ago in the heart of Africa, where there were lush plants and juicy fruits galore.

      Yes, I agree that there are plenty of ways to be an unhealthy vegan– ALL of them.

      What you have will pass, what I have is optimum. I suspect you’ll survive, but I’d prefer to thrive. No offense.

      • Paul Spring

        Nice to hear from you. No mind-changing will happen here. I guess I’m the exception that invalidates your absolute claim.

        I suspect that even if you were given proof that your premises are false, you would still be an avid meat-eater. My sister-in-law just watched her mother die of lung cancer, both avid smokers. Her choice.

        I don’t believe what people were forced to eat in order to survive 2 million years ago has much bearing on what is best for us today. Hopefully we have evolved as a society.

        • Paleo Huntress

          I’ve already been a sick WFPB vegan. Thankfully, paleo turned that around for me. Yes, I’ll always be an avid animal food eater, because eating animal food restored my health after WfPB veganism robbed me of it.

          I already have my evidence.

        • Paul Spring

          Out of honest curiosity, what should I be looking for in terms of negative effects of my WFPB diet? What was your daily food intake? What do you think it was about adding meat that changed your health.

        • Paleo Huntress

          I have no idea what your negative effects might be. Weak bones, declining mental health, CVD, gut issues, diabetes, the possibilities are endless.

          I learned a long time ago that listing out my vegan diet only invites dozens of contrary criticisms like,

          “Too many carbs!”
          “Not enough carbs!”
          “Too much fat!”
          “Too much cooked!”
          “Too little fat!”
          “Too much raw!”
          “Too many grains!”
          “Not enough grains!”…

          Even among the vegan tribe, you can’t agree. You should see them over at Greger’s site, the “Starch!” vegans fighting with the “Raw!” vegans… it’s a laugh riot.

          Suffice it to say that I went through 7 iterations (more and less fat, more and less cooked, more and less carbohydrate, with and without FODMAPS, etc.) over the course of 2 years, giving each one a full 3 months, and the last one (McDougall’s Starch program) got 6. I also had a vegan dietitian guiding me, and I had blood-work done every quarter.

          My current diet looks EXACTLY like my vegan diet, with pastured animal food added. It was already a whole food diet. The difference is the nutrient density and the higher protein to carbohydrate ratio.

        • Paul Spring

          Fair enough. What was your health concern that reintroducing meat resolved?

        • Paleo Huntress

          I was diagnosed with Type II diabetes almost exactly 2 years after becoming vegan. I also had PCOS, was hypertensive with cholesterol over 300, had gained 65 pounds, was enflamed and suffering from extreme GERD. In less than 3 months after going Paleo, I was disease-free. Less than a year later I’d lost over 100 pounds, my cholesterol dropped over 150 points and the ratio idealized, inflammation markers dropped to the low end of normal, and the GERD is gone.

          All due to including pastured animal food.

        • Paul Spring

          Well I can see why you feel deceived by promoters of a vegan diet. So you have significantly increased your protein intake over and above your baseline “vegan” diet or have you cut back on carbs too?

        • Paleo Huntress

          Oh, I’m long over feeling deceived. I think most vegans are like most theists, they genuinely believe what they preach, and the newest and youngest members of the congregation are the most zealous, even though they have the least real-life experience. There’s just nothing like a 4 week college vegan telling you how veganism will solve EVERY health problem because they just lost 6 pounds and “feel great”. >.<

          It's people like Greger, Ornish and McDougall who perpetrate the real deceptions. They position themselves as experts, gain a following fueled by emotion instead of fact and cherry-pick their evidence. Campbell is pretty bad too, but at least he makes it about protein and admits that a plant-based diet is just one of many ways to address it.

          Carbs down, protein is up little and so is the fat. It's probably the fat more than the protein, actually. It's definitely not high-protein. That's the most remarkable piece really, that my cholesterol plummeted (trigs too) when going from a very low-fat, zero cholesterol diet to one that gets almost 50% calories from saturated animal fats.

          I followed a similar vegan iteration at one point, but I could not get enough to eat. I obsessed about food day and night and ate constantly (and with the price of fresh produce, that practically put us in the poor-house). When I wasn't eating I was getting to know every detail of the wallpaper, floor and ceiling around my toilet. We were really close– together 6-8 times a day! I miss being so close.

        • Paul Spring

          Like I said, no attempts at mind-changing here. I do like to keep an open mind. Sounds like you followed a pretty severe no-fat routine. After discovering calcium plaques in my heart 2 years ago I switched from low carb to Ornish and dropped by cholesterol from 298 to 148 with no statins. I run 15 to 20 miles a week and feel energized. I guess each body is different.
          The WFPB gurus certainly don’t agree on everything. I take what they say with a grain of salt. I challenged Ornish on the “no nuts” approach since it seems some fat is required to absorb certain critical nutrients.
          I did watch the Greger video where you claimed he was snide – I think our impressions are colored by our own prejudices. His sing-song whiny style can be irritating but the only snide remarks I picked up on were against smug vegans (himself included) who were shocked at the bad health outcomes.
          I resent approaches that exaggerate, claiming people will cheat otherwise. I see some of this in Essylston, Ornish and McDougall – so in the end I make up my own mind.
          From what I’ve read, I am concerned about saturated fat, not only from a heart disease standpoint, so I do make a point of adding fats to my diet mainly through nuts and seeds. Maybe not as extreme as your vegan experiment.

          For some, trying to match what our ancestors may have eaten is very appealing. For me, it doesn’t have much meaning – I believe people ate what they had to in order to survive long enough to procreate. This has all changed, we eat to make ourselves happy and unfortunately, sick – survival is not a factor.
          Glad you found something that really works for you.

        • Paleo Huntress

          No Paleo diet advocate is trying to match what our ancestors ate. It isn’t possible.

          Paleo man had a life-expectancy of 54 if he lived to age 15. That means paleo man had a significant elderly population to come to such a high average.

          Life expectancy in the US in 1900 was 31 (2 years less that Paleo man at birth) and the adjusted LE was 49.

          It isn’t about surviving, it’s about thriving. Modern day HGs are also free of the diseases of modern civilization.

        • Paul Spring

          Yes, there are hundreds of thousands of years of primitive cultures with a wide range of diets adapted to their geography – impossible to match foods that don’t exist anymore either. In addition we are no longer exposed to the parasites and bacteria that early humans were.
          You are correct, life expectancy is a very misleading concept, highly skewed by the the very high rates of infant mortality. With the advent of modern overcrowded societies, deadly plagues and epidemics continued to take there toll in the early1900’s. This will only get worse as drug-resistant pathogens take hold (due modern to factory farming practices)
          Again – glad you found something that works for you.

  • Jerilyn Bridges

    We have enough evidence to prove that the 70% do not include Africans, Asians, Native, Americans, or East Indians! A Monk from China would be confused by the preachings of a monk from Nepal! The Nun From Tokyo’s high elevations would wonder about this monk’s addiction to bad karma. I have been without soy long enough to watch one side of my hair fall out, my blood pressure reach the roof several times. As a poor person, I am siding with Ornish!
    For70% of us carbs are vital! But then again, we work everyday and have no time to just meditate!

  • Amadeus Monroe

    The author is grossly uninformed.

  • chloeholly

    “Vegetarian Cancer” is disingenuous, given that Jobs’ cancer most likely originated with his exposure to heavy metals while building computers at HP in his early 20’s. The heavy metals he was exposed to are explicitly linked to pancreatic cancer in particular, which is the very cancer he came down with.

  • Toto

    Oh my… That is simply so wrong, i can’t express it in any way.

  • http://www.michaeljcharles.com mjcphoto

    This is the most misleading article I’ve read in years. Steve Jobs was a vegetarian for most of his adult life; he ate dairy, which has been proven to trigger cancer (China Study, Forks Over Knives, Rich Roll podcast episodes 50 and 125, www. Nutritionfacts.org). Steve Jobs also met with Dr Schulze, an herbalist but according to him Steve didn’t want to put in the work, he was sold on the Western approach at that point.

    • Paleo Huntress

      Why aren’t all of the high dairy Swiss and Indians dropping like flies?

    • Dan

      Your quoting the China study, They did spell China right, the rest is Fiction , Total fiction

  • kash

    what nutrients are in fat?

    • Paleo Huntress

      You mean besides the fatty acids themselves and the necessary substrate to metabolize and facilitate the conversion of fat-soluble vitamins like A, D, & E?

      Not many, really… but those are pretty important.

  • waynyatta

    Isn’t Ornish’s diet the only one to be proven to reverse heart blockages? And hasn’t he gotten money from the insurance industry for his research? The insurance industry puts money above everything, so if the think he can cost them less money, I take that as a sign he’s on to something.

    • Paleo Huntress

      No, Ornish’s intervention has been shown to reverse blockages, but diet was just a part of it. The intervention included supervised exercise, 2-3 times weekly clinic visits with nutrition lectures, stress management and reduction education and and group support. He also didn’t allow smokers in the trial. His diet alone has not been shown to reverse the formation of arterial plaques.

      In a study comparing Ornish’s diet to Atkins (and 2 others), people had trouble sticking with both diets, (Ornish slightly more than Atkins) but still had better outcomes with Low Carb. They, “lost more weight and experienced more favorable overall metabolic effects at 12 months than women assigned to follow the Zone, Ornish, or LEARN diets. While questions remain about long-term effects and mechanisms, a low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat diet may be considered a feasible alternative recommendation for weight loss.

  • Paul Spring

    Here is an interesting journal article on Advanced Glycation End products. It describes ways of cooking meat that may lower this significant pathogen.

    http://marshfieldceliac.weebly.com/uploads/2/5/5/7/2557865/ada_ages_in_food_reduction1.pdf

  • Abby

    Actually the majority of this has been disproven. It is impossible for an individual on a plant based diet to get cancer unless they just transitioned and the illness had already manifested. There are actually several studies that have proven dairy intake leads to osteoporosis because milk is too acidic for our bodies to properly digest. It actually leaches calcium from our bones and the calcium we don’t absorb is often excreted through our urine. Humans are physiologically designed herbivores whether one chooses to follow nature or not. There have been countless cases of individuals who have transitioned to a vegan diet and were cured of their illness whether it be epilepsy or cancer. I recommend everyone view the fantastic documentary “forks over knives,” which explains the health transformations that can occur by transitioning to a plant- based diet.

    • Paleo Huntress

      Do you have any evidence of your claims, Abby, or should we just take your word for it?

  • Abby

    There have also been several studies that have linked fish consumption to cancer due to the small traces of mercury found in most fish off the Pacific coast of Japan.

    • Paleo Huntress

      Please provide the citations for these “several” studies. Thank you.

    • Paul Spring

      I believe the impact is on brain development and function, not cancer.

  • katemilletpiketty

    This entire post is grossly irresponsible and merely topical. It lacks any true understanding of the ongoing diet wars from both a scientific perspective or any age-related experience.
    It is shallow despite its attempt at being well-intentioned.

    I am not a supporter of soy or Dean Ornish, but I also do not support many of the suggestions and conclusions in this post made by the author. It has been stated by medical professionals that Steve Jobs acquired his first pancreatic cells in his mid-twenties [appx 24] based on cell division and cancer cell growth rates. It is also felt that his exposure to various carcinogenic compounds (such as lead) used during the hands-on construction of his first computers gave rise to his cancer. My own experience with a high animal protein/fat diet that includes dairy (mostly B. Sears Zone Diet) has been heart disease, obesity, diabetes, and cancer.

    Since eating a more starch-based diet, cruciferous RAW vegetables, oatmeal, legumes, onions, garlic and some vegetable protein supplemented with B vitamin groups including B12, and Reishi, Maiyake, Shitaki mushrooms I have lost weight easily, stabilized blood sugar to healthy low levels, and gone cancer-free. I have noticed that many touting the Paleo diet are young–20s, 30s–and involved in fairly serious exercise regimes. No doubt heavy exercise pushes one toward protien diets, but what happens when you stop?

    I am now 50 but was a serious athlete in my youth. When I stopped due to injuries in my early forties, the protien diet DID NOT help me. (Look at the bodies of ex-athletes, many of them of the bulkier, larger frame gene type are in really bad shape and cannot keep the weight off–or the diseases.

    Switching to a more sustainable starch-based diet like mentioned above solved all my health problems. And trust me, I was deeply ingrained in Paleo/protein thinking for most of my adult life. I feared that a starch-based diet (mind you, no pasta, mainly oats) would spike insulin levels, inflate fat cells, etc., etc. I was wrong.

    I should also add that I have spent time in Asia and am no stranger to monastaries and ashrams, but what I found in Asia is that mostly everyone is thin who mainly consume starches like rice and vegatables. (The high altitude monks in Nepal are still eating below 25% of their diet as meat/Yak milk. Also know that high-altitude populations have selected for different genes in which to deal with oxygen and respiration. Due to this, the ROS cycle may be very diffrerent than low-altitude populations. They are NOT a good population example to cite.) When Asians eat western-styled diets including plenty of protein, they get fat and show all the symptoms of western dietary diseases.

    To all of you Gary Taubes followers, know that I read with much enthusiasm his observations about protien and diet. I also followed the mortality rates for both meat eaters and vegetarians. My belief is that many vegetarians are unhealthy due to the consumption of bad oils, omega 6, soy-based products, and lack of B12. I also KNOW from my own experience and from watching others that a high animal protein diet is equally damaging. (BTW, check out the relationship between insulin growth factor 1, homocystiene and cancer. At best, clean milk is for children. Why? Because they are growing. It is not for adults. Also, check out the ubiquitous levels of bovine leukemia virus present in USA cattle. And also know how antibiotic use in cattle makes them gain weight.)

    The various genetic/phenotypic switches for cancer are turned on by a high protien/fat diet. (Research the anti-cancerous effects of raw, chopped cruciferous vegetables to see how important they are.)

    The appeal of high-protein diets to 20 and 30-year-olds is a psychological reflex akin to overachieving–attempting to make yourself as best as can be despite the fact that you’re already physically an adult.

    High protein is to the diet world what SUVs are to the auto industry.

    But the real question is the following: How do you wish to spend your later decades?
    Both strict vegetarian and high protien diets emphatically highlight the idea that you will have a low quality, disease-prone final decade. Or two.

    -KMP

    PS: Some big thoughts for anyone interested: As great as the free speech Western worldview is, and as great as the offerings of the Enlightenment have been, at this point, the Western worldview is deeply suspect while being pathologically addicted to all-things growth and power at the expense of all else for its continued dominance. It is a deeply pervasive fetish, a type of philosophic cult high on a type of cultural steroid–cultural narcissism–that is, under its various banners of liberalism, Keynesianism, and “Might is Right,” no different than other forms of totalitarianism. (The hard Austrian school offers no ultimate help either.)
    We have lost our self-correcting instinct.
    The Western worldview in its present economic form is itself a form of polluting, metastasizing cancer. We have exported the economic machinery of which to our Eastern neighbors instead of first learning about responsible stewardship, reciprocity, building true communities, and cultivating true leadership. And no, I don’t support Eastern totalitarian governments either, or have any mystically infused ideas about the superiority of the East. If anything, the rise of India and China (Asia) will make our world more polluted and more cancerous.

    We need to stop being adolescents.

  • Richard

    The author knows little about the Ornish Spectrum and even less about reversing heart disease vs a diet for healthy people.

  • kh

    I don’t know the answers but dr. Esselstyn (low fat and veggies) is very healthy and vibrant for his age. Nathan Pritikin who started the low fat was diagnosed with severe heart disease and reversed it on low fat vegetarian diet as proved by his autopsy.

  • Dan

    I have been In Health and nutrition 35+ years, and can tell you with first hand experience that our bodies as complex as they are work with ALL Plant based foods by fermentation, and since we do not have a digestive system that is large and long we cannot extract the nutrients we need on Just a Plant based diet, when you throw in the vegan foods in the fruit group you body does not care if it is a tomatoe, potatoe, orange or apple, pasta, these are ALL SUGARS when they digest and hit your bloodstream, (If it ends with a “TOSE” when converted by digestive system it is a sugar) If you do not burn these off they are put into FAT storage for future use, it is really that simple,

    Protein’s – Meat’s, Fish, Egg’s, Chicken, Turkey, Beef, Hog, list’s goes on, our bodies handle these quite differently first the calories from these are not the same as plant based, and we actually can use MORE calories digesting them than they off as a muscle fuel, however they do have essential amino acids and they do have Collagen, and meat proteins can only be used by the body in Muscle, bone, tendon, and collagen Repair or Build, we do have a balance and I do believe a balanced diet is necessary, and more so for those sick or involved into athletics,

    I personally have tried Vegan diet for 3 years, the first year I lost weight, and I felt great, (the vegan honeymoon period) (Muscle Weight) my stamina dropped by month 18 to nothing but painful workouts, by late into my 2nd year I knew something was wrong, from one doctor to another diagnosis from various collagnetic conditions from auto immune system attacks, (things were just not making sense) carefully I examined everything in my life, I was full vegan and eating well, taking supplement the vegan diet did not supply what was missing, 0.o Protein, and collagen, my Cholesterol had dropped to low levels, and my muscles were wasting away as my liver was self digesting them to continue to supply needed cholesterol from what ever source it could, (I was starving to death)

    end of Vegan diet, one doctor put me on what you would call a Atkins diet, or Paileo diet, back then I called it eating meat and Avoiding anything that could convert to sugar, Within 90 days, Pain was all but gone and I was back to working out again, much I have learned over the decades and one thing is sure a Vegan diet rob us of the collagen’s we need to keep strong, as well as the proteins and amino acids building blocks that makes us what we are,

    In short you eat Carbo’s for FUEL to the Muscles,

    You Eat Proteins to build your bodies Muscle machine

    Religious Zelot’s over a specific diet should be avoided at all cost, and Vegan Honeymoon’s last a while but they just do not have what you need to survive,

    I could write on as to the auto immune conditions we are all doomed to suffer, this is 100% certain if you live long enough but raw foods and collagen’s from safe sources is the best food you can eat,

    For me I eat 4 raw egg’s shells and all in the morning for breakfast in a shake made with 2 bananas and 2 scoops of ice /and on occasion vanilla ice yougurt – I do this for the protein, collagen, and cholesterol (note STEROL) we make it because we do not eat enough of it, but your entire body and every cell in your body get’s choleSTEROL from your liver, please look it all up, you will see Carb/vegan’s is a Sugar diet and meat’s are a Protein diet, balanced is best but you decide and mark on calender when you start and make notes as to how you feel, add vegan foods back slowly once your in shape good luck

    http://www.inspire.com/groups/autoimmune-diseases/discussion/collagen-type-1-2-3-4-5-10-treatment-then-cure/

  • guest

    I became a vegan almost 8 months ago. My chest pains have stopped, I now weigh 175 instead of 227, my blood pressure is now usually around 110/65, I have more energy, save money on food and am totally satisfied with my choice.

    • Paleo Huntress

      It’s not really all that shocking that you lost a lot of weight on a low calorie diet. Everyone does.

  • Guest

    There is a great video on Youtube entitled ”
    Why Did Steve Jobs Die?” I recommend it.

  • guest

    Another thing worth considering is that Kaiser Permanente, the largest HMO in the world, recommends to their doctors that they recommend a 100% plant based diet. If a plant based diet caused medical problems, I’m sure Kaiser would not recommend it.

  • Dan

    Gezz, Vegan’s, die 20-26 years younger, look up the stats in vegan countries, u all are NUTz

  • Dan

    Vegan diet’s carb you up , produce fat and do nothing for collagen, we are having 15% growth yoy in autoimmune conditions over this carb vegan crap, you all need to do research into protein and why we must have it, with out constant supply our collagen ages 5 x faster, as in vega scocity’s, they dont have cancer or heart attacks because they die in their 50’s, and your ideal about cancer is nuttier than fruit cakes if you think vegan diets prevent cancer, cancers are caused by 1,000 of things, including radiation mutation of your dna setting inside from our SUN ! just for 1, pollution of all sorts vegan diets could never prevent ??????????????????????????

  • http://www.michaeljcharles.com mjcphoto

    Dan, I don’t think you’re one to check spelling; you spelled “you’re” incorrectly. But seriously, I do feel sorry for folks like yourself who are misguided. Best of luck with everything.

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  • lele23

    This article is full of false information. Just one: that Tofurky is “full of Roundup-soaked genetically modified soybeans.” Wrong. Tofurky products, as well as just about all the tofu, tempeh, and soy milk on the market, are made from organic, nonGMO soybeans. You know who eats the GMO soy? Farmed animals. If you don’t want to support the GMO soy industry, eat tofu, and stay away from 99% of chicken, beef, pork, and dairy.

  • Dionisio Romano

    Dean Ornish is a conman who has NEVER produced any empirical data to support any of the claims he make in the books and clinics that have made him a multi millionaire. He should be ashamed of himself.

  • bev

    if you havent even read p 42 of the book you are talking about then it doesnt bode well for your Readers does it? do you honestly expect us to believe you have read, and researched other stuff….sorry you blew it!

  • http://www.mymotorrad.com/ james lagnese

    Overall, the one thing that strikes me about the american diet and how it’s changed is that our consumption of sugar has tripled over the last 100 years and we’ve become more sedentary. That alone probably contributed to a lot of our health issues. Then there is processed foods thrown into the mix. The author is correct about needing healthy saturated fats, that’s for sure, but I am not sure about what would have saved Steve Jobs’ life. The biggest mistake was not getting proper treatment right away, but honestly, he had mental issues that precluded that. After reading the Isaacson biography, he definitely had issues, lots of them and it cost him as much as it helped.

  • Cyn Stern

    No matter how you slice it, pancreatic cancer may be THE most-lethal of all cancers–even when it’s caught quickly. I know only one person (author Peter Ostwald) who survived with it long-term, and even so, it got him in the end. I have to wonder how much diet actually contributes to positive OR negative outcomes when it comes to this particular cancer.

  • DDS

    This guy needs to get his facts straight. To say meat has ‘healthy’ fats is like saying smoking has ‘healthy’ air to breathe. Honestly, how about you start with proper data from peer-reviewed, controlled and observational studies worldwide that endlessly prove a plant-based diet outperforms any omnivore diet anyday! This in terms of health, less disease and life longevity. There’s plenty of potential reasons for Steve’s death, here’s just one:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81xnvgOlHaY

    • Paleo Huntress

      That is an excellent idea!

      Since you appear to be the expert, I’m sure it’ll be a breeze for you to share citations to a couple of peer-reviewed, CONTROLLED, diet-only interventions that show a plant-based diet is superior to a whole food omni diet.
      I can’t wait to read what you have to share!

  • http://www.susannebiro.com/ Susanne Biro

    Where is the evidence for the large claims you are making? You have lost credibility.
    “No amount of statistical wiggling is going to disprove this basic fact
    of human existence. I don’t like it – I’d prefer to thrive on sunshine
    and smiles to be honest – but careful experiments and the preponderance
    of data says we do better on lower carb, higher saturated fat diets
    devoid of fat-soluble endocrine disrupting toxins. Vegetables taste
    good, but they are not proper food by themselves, even soaked in grass
    fed butter.” What data? You reference only one. Is this article a joke?

  • Alex

    John Mcdouggal is worse, he isn’t civilized in his debates. He keeps publishing false studies and equating them with his diet, truth is that only a small percentage of folks throughout history followed his diet, sure it is true that folks ate carbs throughout history, but he advocates NO animal fats and NO dairy, did our ancestors not eat meat or dairy at all, hardly. Ancestors killed and eat meat all the time in the wilderness and other places, they also ate rats and other foods.

    So there hasn’t been a large population group throughout history that is vegan, and most of society for thousands of years has not been vegan, whether or not they eat a lot of starches or consume high amounts of starches is irrelevant, because they still ate dairy and meat, Mcdougall says not to eat any, so he can’t use folks who from time to time ate meat and dairy and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t just once a year.

    So he is misleading folks by suggesting and re-writing history, to say that our ancestors ate “his diet”. Who recommends “most of his diet”? Why the USDA and its food pyramid, if you look at the food pyramid which was recently replaced by “my plate” which has similar recommendations, you will see “Starches as the largest food group!, followed by fruits and veggies!”.

    The “Use sparingly category contains you guessed it fatty oils and sweets”, and right below it “meats and dairy”.

    So “most of dr. mcdougals diet has been preached to the American Public for the last 40 years”, he can’t make the excuse that “All of his diet” is what works, because human history did not follow “all of his diet”.

    Vegans will say “well the meat and dairy industry has propaganda”, they won’t tell you the story about the “Carb industry”, as you know farm subsidies are given to wheat,soy, and corn and are produced and lobbied by mid-western Senators in Congress. Guess who influenced USDA policy in the 1970s in favor of a starched based low-fat diet, Sen. Mcgovern, guess where’s he from? South Dakota? No Surprise.

    I don’t judge folks solely based on the food they eat, but it seems society for the last 40 years has been biased in form on diets like his.

    Here’s the problem, meat eaters usually don’t tell folks not to eat veggies, but vegans tell folks not to eat meat and dairy as well as fish and in the case of mcdougal vegetable fats, so it seems on-sided to allow only veggies and not meat,dairy, and veggies, the exception of course is fruit in which of the benefits are also found in veggies also.

    Dr. Mcdougal also won’t mention that physical activity as much more common hundreds of years ago as well as farming as a percentage of the economy and occupation and that food was not as abundant in terms of carbs.

  • Guy Incognito

    I have a real important question. I need deets on those sandals from your vision quest photo. Kelly Starrett has cautioned me that my feet will fall off from wearing flip flops without a back.

  • Jason

    Dave…this is the best commentary on Steve Jobs diet in relation to the progression of his illness I’ve read to date. Thank you!

  • Dan

    In what realm of history has humans been vegan ? if you consolidated human history down to a month, we have been growing food for about a day ! vegan’s nutz

  • Abhay Keny

    I feel what is written in this article is nothing but crap. I was diognised with Carcinoma of Urinary bladder in 1979 and doctor wanted my Urinary Bladder to be removed. I adopted to Vegetarian diet and since than I am having Perfect health. I personally feel now that I should have adopted to Vegan Diet in place of Vegetarian Diet. I had developed a notion that Ghee made out from milk is healthy. About 4 years back I had a little breathing trouble while climbing the stairs I reported this to my Sister who is a Medical Practitioner. She immediately took me to Cardiologist and I underwent a stent implant a decision I repent even today as I have to be on a drug called Prasugrel for life. Had I been Vegan than I would have not taken Milk and Milk products and would have remained perfect healthy.

  • Buffymom9

    Glad you wrote this article.

  • Dan

    Egg’s contain everything to create a living creature they give you full essential amino acid pool to make healthy cells for repair or replacement, they have collagen, and cholesterol (non oxidized cholesterol ) not the crap you see in the frying pan of a hamburger ! Eat em Raw eat plenty, What source of amino’s does a vegan diet supply that gives you a complete essential pool of aminos and non oxidized cholesterol ? clue it is not beans, Beans are toxic posions full of lectin ‘s

  • Dan
  • Marilyn

    Juan Romualdo Martinez Cazador it’s not necessary to use foul language and degrade someone with name calling. That’s not how we do it in a civilized discussion. Talking like that takes away any validity to your opinions.

    • mirene

      Spanish and latin manners are terrible, Me being a latin woman find terrible disgusting to insult as an argument but it happens all the time in our culture with few exceptions. They even add arrogance to their rudeness

  • Roger Lowrey

    What a terrible badly research piece of trash. So a Buddhist monk is a nutrition expert ???? You might have asked a parking attendant. Just as pointless

  • 112864

    the lack of diversity didn’t help him, I’m eating many various fruits (tomato (let’s count them as fruit), peaches, figs, persimmon, orange, grapefruit, grapes, bit of apples, bananas) and vegetables (peppers, cucumbers, carrots, ..) and I take once or twice a week some turkey escalope or fish, sometimes also brown rice

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