Podcast #29: How Real Food Improves Your Performance with Joel Salatin

June 5, 2012 · 40 comments

Exclusive Interview: Joel Salatin



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Joel F. Salatin is an American farmer, lecturer, and author whose books include Folks, This Ain’t Normal, You Can Farm, and Salad Bar Beef. Salatin raises livestock using holistic methods of animal husbandry, free from harmful chemicals, on his Polyface Farm in Swoope, Virginia, in the Shenandoah Valley. Joel joins us today to talk about his unique farming methods, and why they improve both your health, and the health of the animals.

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What We Cover

  1. How did you get interested in sustainable farming and health?
  2. One of the common complaints you hear about grass-fed, natural farms like Polyface is that it’s not as productive as a large scale CAFO, so it can’t feed the world.  Are CAFO’s actually more productive than Polyface or not?
  3. What methods do you use to be so productive?
  4. How are you able to not use pesticides, antibiotics, or synthetic fertilizers and stay profitable?
  5. What is “salad bar” farming?
  6. What are some of the principles you use to ensure the best products possible?
  7. What animals do you raise, and are their any unique tricks you’ve developed to make them healthier and more nutritious?
  8. Do you think it’s possible for organizations like yours to grow and feed a much larger percentage of the population?
  9. Are there any benefits of eating grass over grains for the animals?
  10. What happens to a cow when it is forced to eat grains, soy beans, and otters junk?
  11. Is the meat from animals that have been treated humanely any healthier or tastier?
  12. A lot of people say grass-fed meat and natural fed animals are too expensive.  If the government didn’t subsidize grains and factory farming, do you think these products could be cheaper?
  13. If someone wanted to visit the farm, are they allowed to?  Are there any major events at the farm that would be a good time to come?

Links From The Show

Featured

PolyFace Farms

Food & Supplements

Lectin Lock

Kerry Gold Grass-Fed Butter

Grass-Fed Meat

Bentonite Clay

Activated Charcoal

Lipoceutical Glutathione

GlutenEase

Books

Yoga for Your Eyes by Meir Schneider

Mentions

“Use What I Use: the Best Lab Blood Testing for Biohacking – Save $100 (video too)” by Dave Asprey

“Video: How I hacked myself to overcome information overload stress” by Dave Asprey

Listener Q & A Summary

  1. Do legumes decrease insulin sensitivity?
  2. Is ephedrine safe and effective?
  3. Does the supplement glutenease work?
  4. Are blood tests worthless?

Biohacker Report

A review of the latest research to help you achieve the Bulletproof state of high performance.

Dave: “The potential role of the antioxidant and detoxification properties of glutathione in autism spectrum disorders: a systematic review and meta-analysis.”

Glutathione is important for detox, so these researchers wanted to examine how glutathione depletion might affect childhood autism, which is may be caused by toxins.

The researchers conducted a widespread review looking at all sorts of studies on glutathione synthesis and its relation to autism and toxin clearance.

They found that pathways needed for glutathione recycling and functioning were impaired in children with autism, and recommended that more studies be carried out to see if glutathione depletion is a contributor to autism.

Dave: “‘A Pace Not Dictated by Electrons”: An Empirical Study of Work Without Email”

UC Irvine researchers and the US Army wanted to see how not checking email reduced stress and increased performance of office-workers.

They attached heart rate monitors to office workers, and monitored how often they switched windows during the day.

The people who checked their email the most had the lowest heart rate variability, which is a sign of major stress.  Those who avoided email for 5 days had a much healthier heart beat.

The email fast also produced far better concentration, as evidenced by a reduction in web surfing and more time spent on each task.  The subjects in the email free group also reported far lower subjective stress measures and a greater ability to perform work without distraction.

This study is hard proof that email overload is bad for your performance and your health.  If you’re one of those people who can’t be away from your crackberry or i-have-no-life phone for more than a few hours, you’re less productive, and will probably die sooner.  I only answer email once a day, sometimes once every two days if I’m not under a close deadline.  Try it, you’ll get more done and live longer.

Armi: “Chronic inflammatory diseases are stimulated by current lifestyle: how diet, stress levels and medication prevent our body from recovering.”

Previous research had shown that immune dysregulation is a major contributor to inflammation, not just decreased immune function.

After reviewing data on the massive increase in cases of chronic inflammatory diseases, they hypothesized that immune dysregulation is a widespread problem.

The biggest source of inflammation the researchers found was chronic psychological stress.  Not only did stress impair immune function, it also reduced the body’s ability to cope with new stressors in a healthy way.

They also found that an increase in the consumption of PUFAs, refined carbohydrates, and antinutrients like lectins and saponins (which quinoa has a ton of), paired with a decreased intake of fat soluble vitamins and antioxidants directly promotes inflammation.

The researchers also talked about how modern medications like NSAIDS and other anti-inflammatory drugs are damaging our immune systems.

They conclude that if you want to decrease inflammation, you need to decrease your consumption of omega-6 oils, refined carbs, and antinutrients, stop over-relying on medication, and work on strategies for stress management – basically, be Bulletproof.

Questions for the podcast?

Leave your questions and responses in comments section below.

You can also ask your questions via…

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Listener Questions

Laxi

Love the site guys, I am constantly sharing information with my mother as she is just as much into health as I am so keep up the good work! I’ve got two questions 1. What are your guys opinions on ephedrine? Once in a while either to help with focus for something important or if I over ate the day before I will take a bronkaid with my coffee in the morning. Do you see harm in doing this?

  1. How effective do you think the supplement glutenease is?

Dave responds:

I haven’t used ephedrine in many years. Modafinil is my favorite. Glutenease helps but is in no way the path to safely eating wheat. It’s not worth it! ;)

Regz

re: “Removing grains, legumes, and processed dairy produces greater insulin sensitivity in animals and humans. (6)(7)” – none of the links mentioned legumes. So, claim for removing legumes is not supported.

Armi responds:

Both studies were on paleolithic diets, which involved removing grains, legumes, and dairy. One was on pigs, which is less relevant, but the other was on people with ischemic heart disease. Neither diet was matched for protein intake, which is a major confounder, but both diets removed legumes from the diet. The claim stands supported, with the addition of mentioning that protein intake was higher on the paleo-type diet.

CZ

I had someone say this to me about blood tests. What are your thougts?:

“Blood tests are usually not very accurate for what is happening in the body. Saliva, stool and urine testing is always more reliable and predictable for real results. Many vitamin tests per blood are not good as you need to get RBC analysis to get accurate levels in the body. The best labs out there for accurate testing are ZRT for any hormonal testing, Genova Diagnostics for leaky gut and other stool tests and Metametrix for vitamins and candida. All these labs also offer a multitude of tests and some are well noted for the best in the business. Doctors Data is great for heavy metal testing. Sad thing about all of this is that most of this is not covered by insurance as it does not necessarily follow the American Medical Model as we know it today. A good naturopathic doctor is by far the best way to go as they are set up with all of these labs and will know what to order, but once again usually not covered by insurance.

You should have your Vit D level tested, this can be by a regular doctor and through blood.

Dave responds:

It’s not quite that simple. All body fluids have a story to tell and none are “better” than others. For instance, red blood cell size (cell volume) is an interesting indicator you’re not going to get elsewhere. For anti-aging and wellness, a regular blood test is useful, but so is urine (WellnessFX does that too), and so are saliva. Stool is more specialized and I’m not a big fan of testing it because of sampling problems. Better to look at urine organic acids to discern GI function, IMHO.

Armi responds:

Blood testing has a lot to offer that urine, stool, and saliva testing does not.  First, anything measured in the blood is a good reflection of what’s going on in most of your body, since almost every part of your body has a constant blood supply.

Second, things like omega-3 tissue concentrations, blood glutathione levels, and apolipoproteins can only be measured from blood testing.

Don’t forget to leave a ranking in iTunes.  It helps more people find our show.

Some background research for this post may have been conducted by Armi Legge and other Bulletproof staff researchers.

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  • Endymion

    Hi Dave, I’m interested in whether you’ve had any experience with vinpocetine or huperzine A? I was wondering if there are any cognitive enhancers you’d recommend besides the ones that you’ve mentioned previously i.e as aniracetam, modafinil etc.
    Many thanks and keep up the great work!

  • http://twitter.com/chuckcurrie Chuck Currie

    Joel Salatin is just awesome. We need more like him.

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

      Agreed.

  • Andrew

    Thanks for all the great work guys. Always enjoy the podcast and blog! In the last year I’ve lost 50 lbs on a 4 Hour Paleo Bulletproof diet and the weight loss is just one part of what has been a great year.
    One problem I’m still having is TMJ and wondering if you could recommend any biohacks to help with this as it really effects my quality of sleep and pain during the day. I currently only supplement with Vit D, FCLO, and Nutrient 950 with K. Coffee seems to make it worse, but just ordered some Upgraded to see if that helps. I was wondering if Collagen might help? Thanks, Andrew

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

      Collagen could definitely help, but there are a ton of things that could contribute to TMJ problems. Are you sleeping 8 hours a night? Have you had any blood work to make sure your nutrient and inflammatory markers are in check?

      • Dave Asprey

        TMJ is best handled by sleeping with a splint, and if necessary, even eating with one. I dealt with it by expanding my upper palette using a metal splint (braces basically that could pop out and were invisible), then allowing my lower jaw to move forward. I had to wear a day-time splint that capped my rear molars, raising their height. The end result was no more TMJ, no more jaw stress, and an actual chin. It affects your entire nervous system in a positive way. TMJ = sympathetic nervous system activation = fight or flight. My treatment was basically to deal with the epigenetic effects of my mother eating wheat during pregnancy, which caused my palette to be squished, as per Weston A Price research. http://www.fitcommerce.com/Blueprint/Proprioception-to-the-Brain_page.aspx?pageId=85&portalId=2 explains what proprioception does to the brain. Lyttle is a very strange guy, but he invented laser dentistry and knows a ton of non-obvious things about nervous systems and teeth.

        • Andrew

          Awesome link Dave. Seems like breathing might help as well…Maybe its finally time to breakdown and get the emwave

      • Adittmeier

        What markers would you recommend? CRP is within normal limits. Sleep is pretty good

    • Leslie

      I’ve suffered from severe tmj for years, which started from a fall on my chin as a kid. I’m a huge nighttime clencher, and have actually broken teeth and then crowns. My previous bite splint just protected my teeth, but did nothing for the muscle pain as it acted like a chew toy. I recently got fitted for a Lucia (sp?) jig/splint which fits only over the front teeth and only let’s your front teeth contact. Since there are so many nerve endings in the front teeth, it can quickly retrain clenching behaviours. I’ve had more success with this than anything else I’ve tried. Also, I found that a good physical therapist that does intra-oral work is very helpful (but can be unpleasant at first). Getting your bite realigned is also something good to consider.

      • Dave Asprey

        Leslie is on the right track re jaw and bite realignment. The other thing that can cause the problem is excess choline.

    • Mia

      Also check out Feldenkrais for TMJ
      And see a good cranio sacral therapist! :)

  • Zorica

    Post nasall drip: Does that indicate that one is sensitive to an ingredient and/or mycotoxin in the food?

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Little/654333463 John Little

    This is my favorite podcast you guys have done to date.

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

      Thanks John.

  • Jacob

    Love your podcast. So much incredibly interesting information packed into each episode. Thanks so much guys!

  • zingbo

    Another great episode. Dave, I think those of us who have done less biohacking, and are therefore a little less self aware, would benefit from understanding your qualitative criteria a bit better. For example, you mentioned that you discovered that ghee makes you feel “a bigger boost than butter.” Can you elaborate a little bit on what you noticed in terms of a boost? What would you recommend someone pay attention to if they’re doing the same experiment?

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  • John

    Enjoyed the Salatin section. I’ve been very interested him ever since reading Omnivore’s Dilemma.

    Something in there made me think about wild game. Where do you see Venison on the Eat-Avoid chart? I’m also curious about Wild Boar/Pigs compared to pastured pork on there. A lot of my hunter friends have plenty of that since there is no season on them.

    Has the position of pork on the chart been affected by the Weston Price Foundation study that indicated it has negative blood effects depending on how it is prepared?

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

      Venison is green on the Bulletproof Diet. Wild boar meat is more green than pastured pork, as they have almost zero access to grains and other high omega-6 foods. As a result, they have lower tissue omega-6 levels.

  • leogodin217

    What an amazing interview. Thanks for the work you guys do. I have three questions about food

    1) Where do jalapenos and other hot peppers fit on the diet? How about if I grow them myself?

    2) I’m growing some cilantro.If I harvest the seeds for coriander, are the fresh seeds bullet proof? How about dried seeds?

    3) Are there any vegetables or spices on the red/yellow side of things green when eaten fresh from the plant? For instance, if I grow onions and eat them right after harvesting, do they move to green?

  • http://twitter.com/msavastano77 Mark Savastano

    Excellent podcast, one of the best yet.

    • http://armilegge.com Armistead Legge

      Thank you. Joel is an intelligent guy who knows what he’s talking about, both in nutrition and politics.

  • http://www.facebook.com/feanne Feanne Hontiveros Mauricio

    Thank you for sharing! Joel Salatin is one of my heroes.

  • http://twitter.com/dvhaley Daniel Haley

    Thanks for having Joel on! I’ve been to Polyface twice for his open house/field day held every three years and I enjoyed hearing him on the show this episode.

  • leogodin217

    Two more questions:

    1) I drink an upgraded whey shake for lunch five-days a week. My stomach doesn’t feel good on that, so I also eat a veggie mash with cauliflower, sea salt and butter.

    I’ve heard Dave say the whey is good with Collagen. How much upgraded Collagen would I add to the whey shake (I use 2 TBS of whey), and are there any special instructions to use it?

    2) I have a friend with stage-4 kidney failure who is also diabetic. He needs to go on a low-carb, low-protein diet. Should I suggest lots of grass-fed butter and coconut oil? That seems like a staple on such a diet. Any other tips?

    • Dave Asprey

      1) Half/half

      2) Yes high fat coconut and ghee

  • Brandon

    What an interesting discussion. I love listening to Joel Salatin. Good podcast for sure.

  • Alex

    Hi, I have two questions for a future podcast:
    1) When I order my grass fed meat from my farmer it comes frozen in plastic wraps. Would it be better to put it in a glass container when I am unfreezing it? Of course the meat will come in contact with a bit of air instead of plastic at this point.. I usually eat the unfrozen meat within 2 days so I doubt it risks going bad… I just worry about plastic for reasons you’ve explained many times.

    2) I like to have cacao powder to mix with my upgraded coffee, something I’ve been wondering is what is your take on dutch processed cacao? A while ago I stopped using dutch processed because I heard it might destroy the cacao’s antioxidants (which is why it loses a bit of the bitterness). Is this true? I really love putting some cacao on top of my upgraded ice cream/blueberries

    • Dave Asprey

      Frozen plastic is not worth changing.
      Raw cacao is superior to dutched!

  • Chris Ingram

    Slowly catching up on the podcasts, I have a question/request for a bulletproof diet app for android or iOS.

    Enter your shopping list and the app colours the items from red to green on the bulletproof spectrum, if the item is not in the database, it asks the user to rate it and it flags as an item for the bulletproof community to rate, I’m sure there must be a self-tracker out there with a big enough database to get started and plenty of enthusiastic folks to crowd-source the missing items.

    Anyway, love the podcast, please keep it coming.

    • Dave Asprey

      Great idea!

  • Ptstrand

    Hi there, Dave and Armi.

    I’ve been following your podcast for two months intently after being a paleo convert for a few years. The lifestyle and diet has transformed my middle-aged self into someone so much more powerful, capable and healthy than ever. I especially enjoy your focus on the brain and extending lifespan; you aren’t just talking health; you’re talking power.

    My challenge doesn’t relate to hacking myself, which feels like a natural progression. Rather my challenge relates to hacking my family. I took on this journey independently. I have three kids, all in the teen age range, and they are especially hesitant/combative about this whole paleo/bulletproof-lifestyle. This aspect of my life has become an easy target for my 17-year-old son in particular. He is one of those teens who most enjoys indulging in monster sized bowls of cereal, late night popcorn binges, chip stuffings, gargantuan bowls of ice cream, etc. Added to the challenge is that he is in normal teen rebellion and he is hopelessly caught up in pop culture (which includes food).

    I have managed to make some inroads. All of our meat and butter is grass-fed. Our eggs are locally pastured, and so on. I do get everyone taking vitamin D, omega 3 oil, magnesium. But we can’t seem to keep sugar and grain out of the house.

    While my son sees the phenomenal impact of this experience on my life, that isn’t enough. He thinks I’m running with some sort of cult or something, some obscure mindset that has randomly managed to help me.

    On the plus side, my son is quite intellectually astute, and research findings would help to convert him. He even asked to see them. Could you please point me to specific findings or meta-findings or studies that point to the troubles with eating grain and sugar in particular. For that matter, maybe there are synopses of such findings somewhere for others to refer to. Perhaps there could be a dairy section, a grain section, a sugar section, etc. I can see how this sort of repository could be incredibly helpful to not just me, but to anyone on a mission to impact the world around us.

    Again, I love your podcast, your site and your blog. Please help me to help my family get on board.

    Thank you.

    Peter

    • Dave Asprey

      Peter,
      The good news is that we are working on this right now. In the meantime, tell your son to read “Good Calories, Bad Calories” which tells a convincing story even if it is a bit of a read. Also direct them to my interview with Dr. Davis of “Wheat Belly” Robert talked about what gluten does. Finally, send in the post about bulletproof “get some” ice cream. Gluten makes you weak, it gives you pimples and bad breath. No 17 year old wants that. ?

      • Ptstrand

        Thanks, Dave. I appreciate the ideas, which all make lots of sense to me. I’ll give them a try!

  • http://twitter.com/tesseatsbutter Tess Barreiro

    Hey guys, I can’t wait for the next podcast. In the mean time I am listening to the others over again, I get more out of them every time.

    I have a question though, and I hope this is where I leave it. I am Uruguayan, and so I grew up drinking Yerba Mate. I drink a brand called Canarias, which you can get in Uruguay and Australia (where I live). I drink about 1 litre a day from the same leaves (packed into a gourd). Is this safe? Is it bulletproof? I have always considered it very healthy but now I’m not so sure.

    Thanks in advance

    • Dave Asprey

      Yes! Keep it up.

  • http://biohacks.net/ Stephan

    Are you guys just super busy or what has happened to any new podcasts?

    I can’t wait for #30 to arrive…

  • Meghan

    NEED MORE PODCASTS ;) ….. Seriously I can’t listen to the first 29 for a third time…. how about 1 every other week… and add a female voice (know who this is? ;)

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